SPIEGEL: That’s a clear answer. But also offensive to many people.
Rushdie: In my opinion the word “spiritual” ought to be put on an index and banned from being used for say 50 years. The things that are put about as being “spiritual” -- it’s unbelievable. It even goes as far as a spiritual lap dog and a spiritual shampoo.
SPIEGEL: You yourself once wrote: “We need answers to the unanswerable. Is this life all there is? The soul needs explanations, not rational ones but ones for the heart.”
Rushdie: Of course there are things beyond material needs, we all sense that. For me the answers are simply not in the religious, heavenly realm. But I don’t dictate to anyone what to believe and what not to. And I don’t want that to be dictated to me either.
SPIEGEL: Why is it that Islam -- with its claim to supremacy and strict rules for everyday life -- exerts such an attraction on many young people?
Rushdie: You don’t expect me to explain the attractions of Islam, do you?
SPIEGEL: Which compromises should and could the West make in order to contain the threat of terrorism?
Rushdie: I’m not the man for compromises either. I think you’re talking to the wrong person.
SPIEGEL: But in the light of the attacks September 11, 2001 attacks you yourself wrote that in order to protect free societies against terrorism, limiting rights was inevitable.
Rushdie: I was thinking of stricter aircraft checks or things like that -- of annoying but easily understandable constraints. I hadn’t thought it possible that the Bush administration would go about setting up the machinery of an authoritarian state.
SPIEGEL: Has it done that?
Rushdie: Oh yes. Over the past few years I’ve been the president of PEN in New York, the chairman of the American writers’ association. Again and again, we’ve had to deal with these far-reaching attacks on civil liberties. And most complaints have been justified, because it wasn’t even apparent in what way arrests and surveillance operations were connected with anti-terrorism. And I know what I’m talking about: From my own history of being threatened, I have indeed developed a sympathy for intelligence activities, my protectors enjoy my greatest respect.
SPIEGEL: So are Bush and Blair going too far?
Rushdie: This is the problem with politicians who by nature tend towards being authoritarian: When they are given the chance, they go too far. We have to watch out there. I find it deeply depressing that the Anglo-American politics and Arab politics are currently corroborating each other -- that is: their worst prejudices. Take a look at Iraq, at Lebanon. There is no just side in either conflict. But at the same time we need moral clarity, something I have often missed recently in many liberally minded people -- and I myself am liberal. We need clarity about what is right and wrong, the willingness to defend our values with clear words and to actually call the guilty persons guilty.
SPIEGEL: What do you mean by that?
Rushdie: I’ve always been strictly against blasphemy laws, which are supposed to protect religions against alleged defamation. It’s perfectly all right for Muslims to enjoy religious freedom like everyone else in a free society. It’s perfectly all right for them to protest against discrimination, whenever and wherever they are faced with it. And undoubtedly there are often reflexive reactions in the West, which lead to premature, anti-Islamic suspicions. What is not at all in order, on the other hand, is for Islamic leaders in our countries to demand that their faith be protected against criticism, disrespect, ridicule and disparagement. Even malicious criticism, even insulting caricatures -- these are part of our freedom of speech, of pluralism, of our basic values, which they have got to bow down to if they want to live with us.
SPIEGEL: What role can literature play to encourage tolerance -- and to discourage intolerance?
Rushdie: There is no alternative to the peaceful coexistence of cultures. Promoting that is a task that literature ought to set itself. You see, fundamentalists believe that we don’t believe in anything. In their view of the world, they are in possession of absolute certainties, while we are descending into decadence. We will be able to triumph over terrorism not by waging war on it, but through a conscious, fearless way of life. If there is a choice between absolute safety and freedom, then freedom must always prevail.
SPIEGEL: After Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa in 1989, you lived underground for practically a decade …
Rushdie: … and I was just about to thank you for the fact that the word “fatwa” hadn’t been mentioned yet in our conversation…
SPIEGEL: … but it is inevitable. Much as you may hate it.
Rushdie: Yes, yes, I know. It’s as though something that is not me were world-famous. In the years afterwards I sometimes felt as though other people were writing the story of my life. But I have left that behind me long ago. I live a free, normal life as a resident of New York and London, and I go on frequent trips to the town of my birth, Mumbai (Bombay).
SPIEGEL: All three of them are cities which have been hit by serious terrorist attacks. But all three have proven resilient and have maintained their commitment to a free and open lifestyle.
Rushdie: It’s interesting you should say that. Perhaps that’s precisely why I love these cities.
SPIEGEL: According to the Shiite interpretation, Khomeini’s fatwa cannot be withdrawn because it is a religious edict. Even if there is officially no bounty on your head any more, agitators surrounding the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could reactivate the fatwa at any time.
Rushdie: I have read these speculations by journalists. But I don’t consider them of any importance.
SPIEGEL: Do you still remember the day when the fatwa was proclaimed. Do you mark its anniversary every year?
Rushdie: How could I strike that date from my memory -- it was Valentine’s Day. That way at least I don’t forget the flowers for my wife.
SPIEGEL: Mr. Rushdie, thank you for this interview.
Interview conducted by Erich Follath
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