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Interview with Ottawa's Ambassador to Afghanistan

"Canada Would Like Its Allies to Show More Flexibility"

Canada's troops in Aghanistan are on the front line. David Sproule, Canada's ambassador in Kabul, talks to SPIEGEL ONLINE about the dangerous fight against the Taliban and the debate over Germany's deployment.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Afghanistan mission marks the first time Canadian troops have engaged in large-scale combat since the Korean War. Nearly 10 percent of your entire Army -- about 2,700 soldiers -- are stationed in Kabul and in Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. Why Afghanistan?

Sproule: We see Afghanistan as critically important. We're very anxious to give Afghans an opportunity to have the kind of life that we take for granted: They should get the chance to enjoy our freedoms and economic prosperity. But the international community, quite frankly, didn't pay as much attention to Afghanistan as it should have; and the result is that it became a haven for terrorists from which to launch attacks against countries like ours. It is important that we are here to ensure that history doesn't repeat itself.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How closely are Canadians following developments in Afghanistan?

Sproule:The Canadian public is watching very closely. There is very strong support for our soldiers in Afghanistan. And there is also tremendous interest in the two D's that come along with defense -- namely, diplomacy and development.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Canada is also leading in the south, where a resurgent Taliban has created a deeply challenging security situation -- and resulted in 36 Canadian deaths in 2006 alone. This has led to a passionate debate in Canada about burden sharing among allies in Afghanistan. In the autumn, Germany came under heavy criticism in Canada for its unwillingness to send troops into the more dangerous south after the Taliban-clearing Operation Medusa in Panjwayi province. Has this badly damaged Germany's public image in Canada?

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Sproule: Let me formulate this as cautiously as I can. If you're asking whether our government and the people of Canada would like our allies to provide more flexibility in terms of the mandate of our operations in Afghanistan, the answer is yes. Operation Medusa was critically important for NATO. It was clear that once ISAF took over command in the south that the Taliban was going to challenge them to see whether the troops would be willing to confront the Taliban militarily. Canada, with the support of its allies as well as the Afghan government, showed that it would stand up and not allow its people to be intimidated or coerced by the Taliban.

That said, Canada has no doubts about Germany's commitment to rebuilding Afghanistan and we appreciate all that Germany is doing. It is among the biggest donors, it commands the northern region and it has been actively involved in every diplomatic effort from the beginning. It has made a very large and indispensable contribution.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Still, there is great ambivalence in Germany about the best way to move forward in Afghanistan. There was initial sentiment in some European countries -- including Germany -- that the United States, Britain, Canada and others were putting the goal of wiping out the Taliban above the goal of winning the hearts and minds of people in southern Afghanistan.

Sproule: I just don't agree. The approach is the same in the north as it is in the south. But the reality is that in the south the security challenge is greater. We have to create an environment which allows reconstruction and institution-building to go forward. In the north, the security environment is such that we can proceed more expeditiously with the rebuilding. But since Operation Medusa, we have been able to put an unprecedented amount of development and reconstruction assistance into Kandahar that was not possible before we dealt with the security situation.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The level of disappointment with the West among Afghans is considerable, especially in the south. Germany's ambassador to Kabul, Hans-Ulrich Seidt, warned last year that a war in the south "could not be won militarily." Is the war in the south a winnable one?

Sproule: This effort will not succeed on military means alone. Everybody agrees about that. We need reconstruction and development -- especially institutional development. It's going to take time and patience. But if we didn't think this could be accomplished, why would Canada be providing $100 million a year in development assistance and why would Germany be giving so generously? None of these parts can be ignored. They're all indispensable.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Canadian military has developed a new approach -- you call it Baaz Tsuka -- in which you forewarn villages of coming NATO attacks against the Taliban. The program also seeks to convert guerrillas who are fighting for the Taliban because it offers a better pay check.

Sproule: Operation Medusa was our response when the Taliban decided to confront ISAF and NATO. With the next logical step -- Operation Baaz Tsuka -- we have gone out into previously insecure communities and are trying to show Afghans that it is time to come back to their homes and to get themselves back on their feet economically. But we also send out another message: We believe the vast majority of Taliban fighters are neither extremist nor ideologically committed. They may be there for a daily wage rather than out of support for the evil cause of the Taliban. We can say: You've got an alternative now -- we are reconstructing your communities and there are going to be new economic opportunities for you. Our initial indications are that we've been successful.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: But those efforts also underscore just how dangerous operating in the south can be. Some of the worst casualties suffered by the Canadian army have been through attacks conducted as it tried to do civilian work, like handing out school books.

Sproule: Even though we take every precaution possible, our soldiers have knowingly taken risks. Still, the kinds of people who burn school houses, kill school teachers to prevent girls from going to school and commit suicide bombings on people who are conducting humanitarian aid and giving gifts to children -- these people who not only kill Canadian and ISAF soldiers, but also kill fellow Afghans to me are the epitome of evil. Germany and Canada and our partners stand for what is right and that is why we are there. In my view, this is pretty much a fight between good and evil.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Still, some of these efforts haven't produced the desired results and there's no end in sight of the hostilities in Afghanistan or the West's deployment there. You have specifically cited weaknesses in the police training program, which is led by Germany.

Sproule: I appreciate all that Germany has done in the area of police training. They have made a tremendous difference so far and we appreciate their leadership role on this. What I think everyone recognizes, though, is that given the security situation, we need to expedite the process. This is a collective effort and if we are slower in terms of our efforts on the police side than we were on the army side, then it's because we didn't put as much effort into it as an international community as we should have. But there are other factors. Traditionally, police officers in Afghanistan were not the paragons of society -- they were not respected. They were seen as more of a threat than a help to the average Afghan. We have to overcome all that. Policing in Afghanistan in the past was nothing like the community policing we know in Canada and the West.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The recent Taliban insurgency has been disquieting for many Europeans and it has threatened to obscure considerable progress that has been made in Afghanistan. Five years after the United States invaded Kabul, where do we stand today?

Sproule: I'm very positive. Sometimes we're not reaching our benchmarks as quickly as we want and sometimes we could be doing a better job, but we are adjusting our tactics all the time. And we're making progress. There are now 7 million children in school, including 3 million girls. The per capita national income has almost doubled and the gross national product has doubled. We now have a national army that is serving with foreign soldiers to provide security that wasn't there before. We have a disarmament program -- 63,000 heavy weapons have been decommissioned, discarded and put out of harm's way and more than 60,000 soldiers have been demobilized. Tens of thousands of anti-personnel mines have been destroyed in a program led by the Canadians. We also have a micro finance program with more than 200,000 borrowers, three-quarters of whom are women. Those opportunities weren't there before.

If you talk to an average Afghan, their concern isn't the international presence in the country. Their concern is the international presence departing before the job is done.

Interview conducted by Daryl Lindsey