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  SPIEGEL Interview with BASF CEO Jürgen Hambrecht: 'I Have a Problem with the Term Climate Change'

SPIEGEL Interview with BASF CEO Jürgen Hambrecht 'I Have a Problem with the Term Climate Change'

Part 2: 'That's Fear Mongering'

SPIEGEL: Does this mean that we have already lost the battle against climate change?

Hambrecht: We have to do more, of course. But I have a problem with the term "climate change." It's laden with fear. The climate is a highly complex system, and it has always changed. If there is one thing we cannot do, it is to allow ourselves to be scared and to seek emotional satisfaction in short-term campaigns.

SPIEGEL: Apparently you don't take the report by former World Bank chief economist Nicholas Stern seriously. He predicts that unless we take drastic steps today climate change will cause a global economic crisis worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Hambrecht: That's fear mongering. There isn't really anything new in the report. There are processes of change in the climate that we still don't fully understand. This alone makes me believe that steps must be taken. But there should be some sense of proportion.

SPIEGEL: What do you envision?

Hambrecht: We need a global approach, most of all. Everyone has to participate, including the United States and the developing nations. Look at China, for example. Greenhouse gas emissions in China are growing by more than 300 million tons a year. This is more than everything Mr. Gabriel wants us to save by 2020. This should be enough to illustrate the relations. The atmosphere doesn't care where greenhouse gases come from.

SPIEGEL: Gabriel says: "The industrialized nations have used the atmosphere as a free garbage dump for decades. Now, through emissions reductions, they must make room for developing countries." Doesn't this make sense?

Hambrecht: It's an incredible simplification, and it would mean that we could no longer grow. If that's what Mr. Gabriel wants then he should say so.

SPIEGEL: The developing nations and emerging economies are telling the West: You were able to develop for decades without worrying about climate change. Now that we are catching up, you come along and tell us, from your high horse, how we should behave. Can't you understand that?

Hambrecht: Of course I can understand it, but that's the way to keep this discussion going ad infinitum. We must develop a different attitude toward conditions on this earth. Many academics believe that the 12th century was the most successful for people in Europe. It was also the century in which Europe was the warmest. But then came the "little ice age," which lasted until the 19th century and was a difficult time with many epidemics.

SPIEGEL: Are you saying the warmer, the better? In that case, why should we do anything at all?

Hambrecht: Because mankind continues to grow and more and more people want to share in the prosperity. We must conserve resources, not just oil and gas, but also water, corn and soy. If we do nothing, the struggle for resources will take on geopolitical forms that we don't want. That's why have to do something.

SPIEGEL: The German economy benefits from the measures that have been taken. Companies like BASF are global leaders in many environmental technologies.

Hambrecht: Certainly. If better insulation were installed in every house in Germany, we would already save 80 million tons of CO2. And think of countries like Russia, but also England and the United States, where they don't use any insulation or where insulation is very poor. The chemical industry has developed completely new materials for this purpose. There is a long list of innovations. In the future you'll be able to use organic luminous diodes in new kinds of luminous wallpaper, thereby saving electricity. Other future-oriented technologies with which energy can be saved include green genetic engineering and methods of storing hydrogen in small spaces, which we are studying. Eventually we'll have all of these things.

SPIEGEL: In other words, massive savings will be possible.

Hambrecht: There is certainly potential. But we will never achieve the three percent Mr. Gabriel wants to set as a goal. And when I hear charges that Germany invests a "mere $6.20" per capita in energy research, compared to Japan's $30, I say: We were the world leaders in nuclear engineering research, but now that's gone. Green genetic engineering is also heavily restricted in this country. It is disingenuous to cut off our own research while at the same time leveling accusations against industry.

SPIEGEL: There are more and more "green" investment products, and more and more funds place a premium on companies being environmentally friendly. Do you feel this sort of pressure?

Hambrecht: I approve of the idea of integrating sustainability into the appraisal of companies. But only a very small group of investors focuses mainly on things like environmental efficiency analyses.

SPIEGEL: Most are interested purely in quarterly results?

Hambrecht: Yes, as a company today you need economic success more than ever. Investors have full pockets. The world is full of money. You have to offer returns to secure a company's long-term existence.

SPIEGEL: It seems only a matter of time before financial investors will be launching takeover attempts against companies listed on the DAX. Do you already feel the hot breath of private equity and hedge funds on the back of your neck?

Hambrecht: No one has come close enough yet to scare me. But it is of course possible for a financial investor to set his sights on a world market leader like BASF.

SPIEGEL: Wouldn't BASF be an especially attractive target for asset stripping? Individual divisions, such as natural gas and petroleum producer Wintershall, could easily be spun off and sold.

Hambrecht: You'd have to ask the investors. But the companies that are most at risk are those with weak management, which is certainly not the case with our company. On the contrary, I don't believe a team exists that could manage BASF as well as we have.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Hambrecht, thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

Interview conducted by Sebastian Ramspeck and Armin Mahler.