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SPIEGEL Interview with SAP Co-Founder Dietmar Hopp

'I Am the Face' of Commercialized Football

In an interview with SPIEGEL, Dietmar Hopp, 68, the co-founder of software giant SAP and football patron, discusses his plans for 1899 Hoffenheim, the rising-star in German soccer, jealousy and anger over the game's commercialization and how he has learned to grow a thicker skin.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Hopp, since 1998, you have invested well over €100 million ($128 million) in 1899 Hoffenheim, a club that used to be in the Kreisliga, the lowest tier of league soccer in Germany. Now, after only eight games in the Bundesliga, the highest tier, the team has already advanced to hold a leading position. It sounds like there might be a master plan aimed at kicking FC Bayern München from the top spot.

Dietmar Hopp: There is no such plan. We will never be able to seriously compete with the Bavarians. They get twice as much television advertising and 10 times as much money from their jersey sponsors. The Bavarians have 140,000 club members, while Hoffenheim has all of 2,000. When the big clubs show up, we probably won't be able to keep our players. I'm not being overmodest when I say that we will be pleased if we can manage to keep up with the rest of the class this season without too much stress.

SPIEGEL: At this point, no one doubts your ability to keep up with the class. But if things do start getting tight, you could always invest more money.

Hopp: People seem to think that I have a bucket of money to pour over the team. Of course I want success, but I also want stability. I am 68 years old, and my big goal is to get this club up to speed as quickly as I can. Many will not believe this, but we will probably be in the black in our first year in the Bundesliga …. And if we can turn one or two of our players into stars and earn significant transfer profits as a result, it will pay for itself. That could be the formula that launches us onto the international stage.

SPIEGEL: Are you saying that you're not planning to invest almost €20 million ($25.6 million) in the team again this season?

Hopp: No. When you are in danger of being relegated, recently acquired new players only create uncertainty. Referring to Hoffenheim, Leverkusen coach Bruno Labbadia recently said: "Having money is one thing; investing money right is another." We got the player Luiz Gustavo, for example, at a very good price -- about €100,000 ($128,000). Players like Andreas Ibertsberger, Tobias Weis and Marvin Compper joined the club for not a lot of money. And even if we don't fight to remain in the top class, in my view, investing in the team right now would be the wrong thing to do -- at least in strategic terms.

SPIEGEL: Why?

Hopp: The team that has managed to advance into the Bundesliga is very young, and it still has room for development. We have to give it a chance to show us what it can do. The money we invested last year was spent with an eye on the future.

SPIEGEL: Your coach, Ralf Rangnick, says that he can't really imagine the club supporting itself one day without your money.

Hopp: It's in Rangnick's interest, too, to get the club to a point where it can support itself. I view him and manager Jan Schindelmeiser as being entrepreneurs. Once again, there is no bucket of money. Infrastructure accounted for five times as much money as I invested in the team. Playing fields, youth centers, the new stadium in Sinsheim, the new training center -- all of this brings it close to €150 million ($192 million) the amount that has been paid over the last 10 years by me and, in the case of youth development programs, by my foundation.

SPIEGEL: Does the club have to repay the team's start-up financing?

Hopp: I am a silent partner in the operating company. I own 49 percent, and the club owns 51 percent. The rules of the German Football League (DFL) prohibit me from owning more than that. The silent contributions, in fact, must be repaid. But if this "50 plus 1" rule is ever revoked, the capital contributions will be converted into equity capital, and then I will acquire the corresponding number of additional shares. The club pays me rent -- a reasonable rent -- for the stadium and training center.

SPIEGEL: How much influence do you have over athletic decisions?

Hopp: I have no influence whatsoever. It has been just luck that our scouts have had such a good eye recently. They went to Belgium, where they found Demba Ba. Chinedu Obasi came from Oslo. Have you ever seen him play? You should see him when he cuts loose! But there will also be times when we make the occasional bad investment.

SPIEGEL: But, surely, Rangnick and Schindelmeiser must tell you about their transfer plans?

Hopp: Oh, of course. We have also discussed cases in which I thought the amounts were too high.

SPIEGEL: How high? More than €10 million in transfer fees?

Hopp: More than €10 million, but I can't exactly say how much more, because one offer never materialized. That was when I said that I couldn't afford this and that I didn't want to. Together, we concluded that this doesn't match our philosophy. In the case of Andreas Beck, who came from VfB Stuttgart, we initially thought that €3 million was too much. But we liked the guy. He is incredibly clever and was determined to play for Hoffenheim because he felt that he had better prospects here.

SPIEGEL: Is it true that one of the reasons you are no longer investing in players as much is that the competition has expressed resentment and the fans of opposing teams have heckled you?

Hopp: That would be grist to the mill for these people. I don't have to step on the brakes now; I set myself a budget from the start, and we continue to operate within this framework.

SPIEGEL: Can you understand football fans who get upset when a billionaire suddenly shows up and pampers a club until it starts beating everybody else?

Hopp: Of course I understand that, but our rivals overlook the fact that we have consistently played a good role in the regional league (the fourth tier of the German league system) since 2001. What troubles me is the form of the protests. I can tolerate the "son-of-a-whore" chants. But when I see a poster depicting me in the sights of a gun, as recently happened in a match against Dortmund, it stops being amusing. The police arrested the young man.

SPIEGEL: The stands can be a pretty rowdy place.

Hopp: I know. But this is going too far. What happens if someone actually becomes violent one of these days? By the way, we dropped the charges last Monday when the man apologized. We also invited him to take see how things are in Hoffenheim for himself.

SPIEGEL: The German Football Association (DFB) is threatening clubs with penalties if their fans accost you. In Bremen, for example, stadium officials refused to allow fans to bring in a sign that read: "Hoppe, hoppe Reiter -- wenn er fällt, dann schreit er" (in an allusion to Hopp's name from a children's song, suggesting that he is too sensitive about insults). Isn't all of this a bit exaggerated?

Hopp: I also know that this could possibly provoke people to test the limits of what's permissible. As far as the sign in Bremen is concerned, it wouldn't have really bothered me. But I can't say whether what the DFB is doing is good or bad for us. It apparently wants to prevent arrests in the stadium.

SPIEGEL: Rangnick isn't comfortable with this whole debate. He doesn't want to be cast in the role of a victim.

Hopp: Of course I would prefer peace and quiet. I've had to deal with the insults for a year now, and I haven't reacted to them at all yet. It was the police and the DFB, not us. But it just so happens that a stadium is not some lawless place, and that's why I approve of the reaction.