Interview with Deutsche Bank CEO Ackermann: 'There Would Be No Banking Industry Without Risks'

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SPIEGEL: Many banks are already again making big profits. Those who are responsible for triggering the crisis, of all people, are now profiting from the government bailouts and the cheap money that the central banks are pumping into the system to stabilize it. Are you a crisis profiteer?

Ackermann: The stabilization of the financial markets and the interventions of governments and central banks have clearly helped us. But does this make us crisis profiteers? We all benefit from the government rescue packages and also, I might add, from the fact that many banks are in the black again. This means that we are in a position to finance industrial projects, create and secure jobs, pay taxes, and promote growth and prosperity.

SPIEGEL: What is the banks' mission? Are they supposed to service the financial needs of their customers, or make money from money?

Ackermann: A bank's mission is to create the financial conditions for growth and prosperity, and fulfill as best as possible the diverse needs of customers, employees, owners and society. These needs are, to a certain extent, in competition with each other. The main point of reference here is profit. You can only make profits with satisfied customers and motivated employees. And it is only with profits that you can offer better products and services, create jobs, pay taxes and thus foster prosperity.

SPIEGEL: Many companies complain that the banks are no longer lending them money. Is there a credit crunch?

Ackermann: I have not noticed a general credit crunch. There is no doubt that companies' loan costs and loan requirements have increased. But I can assure you that we, Deutsche Bank, remain available, as ever, with loans for our customers.

SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, the cheap money of the central banks is not reaching bank customers. Instead many banks have returned to the same old business deals, allowing them to make big profits again. Is the party simply continuing after the crisis?

Ackermann: The facts look different. First, interest rates have fallen, both for consumer loans and mortgages. The cheap money from the central banks cannot be passed on to customers as cheaply because it only makes a small contribution to the banks' refinancing volumes. The majority of our refinancing costs are significantly higher. Incidentally, the interest rate reflects not only the refinancing costs, but also the default risk. And this has increased due to the recession. Second, it is not true that we are simply carrying on with the same old business deals. Our risk and profit structure has changed considerably. So the party is not continuing. In addition, we are systematically enhancing our stable areas of business and our position on the domestic market.

SPIEGEL: How effectively are you able to act given the current smoldering power struggle with your supervisory board chairman Clemens Börsig?

Ackermann: Power struggle? You seem to be suffering from a misunderstanding. I had informed the supervisory board that I wanted to step down at the annual shareholders' meeting in 2009, and not wait until the annual meeting in 2010. I did this to avoid a long, damaging debate over who should succeed me.

SPIEGEL: And in this situation Börsig wanted to be named as your successor, which prompted you to say that's not possible, and to extend your contract.

Ackermann: No. It was not me, it was the supervisory board that didn't want to support the proposed successor solution and asked me to stay. In this difficult situation for the bank I felt obliged to continue. The power struggle that you describe never took place.

SPIEGEL: Who is looking for your successor?

Ackermann: Mr. Börsig and myself together.

SPIEGEL: And you will remain the CEO until your contract expires in 2013?

Ackermann: That is what is stipulated in my contract. And I intend to fulfill it.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Börsig has been accused of ordering individuals to be spied on, including a member of the board and a member of the supervisory board. Data protection commissioners, financial auditors and state prosecutors are investigating. Are we likely to see additional revelations?

Ackermann: When the issue was brought to the attention of the board, we acted swiftly and thoroughly. The examining committee of the supervisory board has, with my approval, hired a reputable law firm to conduct an independent inquiry. The bank has already informed the public of the main results of this investigation. We don't have anything to add for the time being. Additional official investigations are still underway. We are still awaiting their results.

SPIEGEL: You have fired one of your security people and the head of the investor relations department. The investigation by the law firm has revealed that a critical shareholder and a journalist were also spied on. That indicates a certain amount of paranoia.

Ackermann: We are talking here about a total of four highly different cases over a period of 10 years …

SPIEGEL: ... that are all highly unusual.

Ackermann: All cases were originally based on the legitimate goal of protecting the bank and its management from harm. In pursuing this goal, subsequent developments unfortunately led to dubious activities.

SPIEGEL: Following the extension of your contract, your position in the bank is stronger than ever, but you continue to be a highly controversial figure in Germany. Is this difficult for you?

Ackermann: Surveys among the general population paint a widely divergent picture. Doubtlessly partly because I am so widely known, a lot of things are attributed to me -- some justified, some unjustified. I am going to take on this challenge and remain true to my responsibilities.

SPIEGEL: What do you expect from the new government? Tax cuts?

Ackermann: I expect changes in some areas of the tax system. I also hope that we can launch some new initiatives in our health and labor market policies. My greatest wish, though, is a return to a more strongly enhanced dialogue among policymakers and the business community -- for the good of everyone. People expect us to come up with solutions to their problems.

SPIEGEL: As a banker you know that when there is a lack of income, expenditure has to be adjusted accordingly. In the current situation, how in the world should the government cut taxes?

Ackermann: We can primarily reduce the high level of public debt through more growth. Tax cuts foster this process. But there is no doubt that the expenditure side should also be examined.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Ackermann, thank you for this interview.

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• Part 1: 'There Would Be No Banking Industry Without Risks'
• Part 2: 'The Interventions of Governments and Central Banks Have Clearly Helped Us'