SPIEGEL Interview with Banker Steven Green: The New World Order 'Is Already Underway'

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Green: We made it possible for poorer people to own homes…

SPIEGEL: But you must have known that an unemployed person cannot pay off a mortgage. One might consider that immoral.

Green: I can't accept that, because we handled subprimes carefully. Without us, these people would have fallen into the hands of loan sharks.

SPIEGEL: With all due respect, your bank didn't get into the subprime business because it wanted to help out poor Americans. It got into the subprime business because it expected to make a handsome profit.

Green: Making a profit and promoting a social concept are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it was perfect. In 2002, we could not have predicted the problems that would occur later.

SPIEGEL: The moral problem lies elsewhere. The risks associated with these mortgages were securitized, and therefore hidden, a thousand times over. The responsibility was simply sold onto someone else.

Green: You're completely right. But HSBC hardly pursued this strategy. We securitized almost nothing -- precisely because we consider this to be a questionable practice.

SPIEGEL: It's also immoral when a bank forecloses on the houses of their insolvent customers. The Christian thing to do would be to at least allow these people to keep a roof over their heads. As long as there are no buyers for the houses it doesn't cost the banks anything.

Green: It wouldn't only be the moral thing to do, it would also be in the interest of the investors. And in fact we did offer that option to many of these homeowners.

SPIEGEL: What kind of business does an ethical banker engage in?

Green: He deals in products that are useful and socially beneficial, and that are fairly traded. Long-term relationships with his customers and his shareholders are important to him.

SPIEGEL: Given this self-image, could you support a weapons company, for example?

Green: There are activities that I, and my bank, consider to be questionable. For this reason, we have almost no involvement in the weapons industry. We want the things we finance to be sustainable.

SPIEGEL: Do you have lists that classify companies as "good" or "bad?"

Green: No. We tend to look at business sectors instead.

SPIEGEL: Is HSBC more ethical than others?

Green: Neither more ethical nor better. There are undoubtedly some smaller banks that don't pay too much attention to how they make their money. But nowadays, the big banks pay very close attention to these issues, even if the public is under the impression that bankers are motivated purely by greed.

SPIEGEL: A former employee of HSBC in Switzerland is believed to have turned over data on more than 100,000 customers to French authorities. What do you know about this?

Green: All that is clear so far is that there was criminal activity involved, in which a former employee gained access to customer information illegally and passed it on. However, based on what we know at this point, this affects fewer than 10 of our customers.

SPIEGEL: Tax evasion and possibly even Mafia accounts are believed to be involved. Now, purely as a question of morals: Would you understand if an employee betrayed the company for purely moral reasons?

Green: If he had any suspicions, I would expect him to report them internally first. In our bank, all laws and regulations are strictly observed in all countries and units. We have departments that look into everything, such as money laundering and compliance issues, as well as an internal audit department. Tax evasion, money laundering, drug or Mafia money are not things our bank knowingly tolerates. For this reason, no one has to steal customer data.

SPIEGEL: So, could you understand it: Yes or no?

Green: It depends. End of story.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Green, we thank you for this interview.

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• Part 1: The New World Order 'Is Already Underway'
• Part 2: Bankers Big Bonuses 'Not Particularly Important'
• Part 3: 'We Made it Possible for Poorer People to Own Homes'