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  SPIEGEL Interview with UK Prime Minister Tony Blair: 'Ten Years Is Long Enough'

SPIEGEL Interview with UK Prime Minister Tony Blair 'Ten Years Is Long Enough'

Part 3: 'Fun is the Wrong Word'

SPIEGEL: Did you overestimate your influence on Washington?

Blair: No, I’ve never done it as a tit-for-tat or as an exchange. I don’t barter policy, particularly on conflict.

SPIEGEL: Did you think it would be easier to win the war and the period after the war?

Blair: The one thing I would say is, the great underestimation was how deep this problem was, how many elements were going to evolve and come together to try and stop us, once we’d removed the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam from Iraq and were making progress. But I believe that when they fight us harder, we’ve got to fight back. I personally think you’ve got to stand up and take them on -- everywhere.

SPIEGEL: Did your decision to tackle terrorism in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq not inadvertently help to spread terrorism?

Blair: This will become a great Western myth if we’re not careful. We didn’t create these people. And it’s not our fault that they are the way they are. They have a belief system, they have an ideology, and they have discovered the power of terrorism in an era of globalization and mass communication.

SPIEGEL: But al-Qaida wasn't in Iraq before the war started. Now it is a training camp for al-Qaida.

Blair: Be really careful about buying all that. It is correct that al-Qaida are very active in Iraq, but if they weren’t active in Iraq they would be active elsewhere. And we're after them in Iraq. A lot of them are getting killed there, too.

SPIEGEL: Isn’t the basic problem that the fight against terrorism produces ever more terrorists -- not just in Iraq, but also in Europe? And that the campaign against terror in the Middle East has brought it to Spain and the UK?

Blair: Until we start challenging these ideas, we’ve got the wrong attitude, a defeatist attitude -- this idea that by removing Saddam in Iraq or the Taliban in Afghanistan and giving the Muslims there a democratic process, somehow we are oppressing the Muslim nation ... It’s other Muslims that are killing them. We’re trying to stop them killing each other. We should be on the side of the innocent against the terrorists.

SPIEGEL: Do you actually think that prolonging the American occupation will increase the chance of peace in Iraq?

Blair: Yes, but I don’t think it will come through American troops staying there, per se. It will come through building up the capabilities of the Iraqis. If you talk to our forces down in Basra now, they will say that the 10th division of the Iraqi army and the Iraqi special forces are good.

SPIEGEL: How long will it take until there is some kind of peace in Iraq? Do you think in terms of years or decades?

Blair: I don't think we can be sure of that. But one thing I am very sure of is that defeating this global terrorism is a generation-long affair. The roots of this are deep, they are in many different parts of the world. And they are prepared to use terrorism as a powerful weapon. And they are prepared to outlast us.

SPIEGEL: What are you going to do when you leave Number 10?

Blair: I don’t know. We will see.

SPIEGEL: Will you be signing a contract with Gasprom, like Gerhard Schröder?

Blair: Certainly not.

SPIEGEL: Lord Anthony Giddons, co-inventor of the Third Way, described you and your successor Gordon Brown as the Lennon and McCartney of British politics. Can Labour survive with only half the duo?

Blair: We have worked very closely over the years despite all the tensions and difficulties that arise at the top of politics. He has been a big part of the success of the government and I am sure he will continue to be so.

SPIEGEL: When you moved into Downing Street in 1997, there was a bottle of champagne from your predecessor John Major, with a card saying it was a great job and telling you to have fun. Did you have fun?

Blair: Fun? Fun is the wrong word, really. It’s a sense of privilege doing it. And it’s certainly exciting.

SPIEGEL: Bill Clinton said about his time in the White House that he loved every single day. Did you also enjoy every single day?

Blair: I’m sure I could think of a few days.

SPIEGEL: Prime Minister, thank you for the interview.

Interview conducted by Stefan Aust, Hans Hoyng and Thomas Hüetlin.

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