Interview with Marine Le Pen: 'I Don't Want this European Soviet Union'
In a SPIEGEL interview, French right-wing populist Marine Le Pen discusses the European election victory by her Front National, German dominance in the EU and her admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin.
SPIEGEL: Ms. Le Pen, having won 25 percent of the French vote, your Front National party stands as one of the primary beneficiaries of the May 25 European Parliament election. How could such a thing come to pass?
SPIEGEL: Yet, prior to the election, it was said that the establishment of lead candidates for the two biggest groups -- Jean-Claude Juncker for the center-right and Martin Schulz for the center-left -- would strengthen democracy in the EU.
Le Pen: That is totally bogus. Everybody knew that the parliament wouldn't be making the final decision on the next president of the European Commission.
SPIEGEL: Do you want to destroy Europe?
Le Pen: I want to destroy the EU, not Europe! I believe in a Europe of nation-states. I believe in Airbus and Ariane, in a Europe based on cooperation. But I don't want this European Soviet Union.
SPIEGEL: The EU is a vast project for peace. It has helped ensure 70 years without war on the Continent.
Le Pen: No. Europe is war. Economic war. It is the increase of hostilities between the countries. Germans are denigrated as being cruel, the Greeks as fraudsters, the French as lazy. Ms. Merkel can't travel to any European country without being protected by hundreds of police. That is not brotherhood.
SPIEGEL: You now intend to head to Brussels only to fight the system.
Le Pen: And why not? The EU is deeply harmful, it is an anti-democratic monster. I want to prevent it from becoming fatter, from continuing to breathe, from grabbing everything with its paws and from extending its tentacles into all areas of our legislation. In our glorious history, millions have died to ensure that our country remains free. Today, we are simply allowing our right to self-determination to be stolen from us.
SPIEGEL: In truth, though, you didn't win the elections because of the EU, but because the French are furious with their economic situation and with President François Hollande. Have you thanked him?
Le Pen: No. Then I would have had to call Nicolas Sarkozy as well. France is in this situation because the conservative Union for a Popular Movement (Sarkozy's party) and the Socialists (Hollande's party) submitted to European treaties. These treaties promote German interests quite well, but they are poor at defending France's interests.
SPIEGEL: Germany is to be blamed for France's misery?
Le Pen: Whenever I hear people utter anti-German sentiments, I say: You can't blame Germany for defending its own interests. I can't blame Ms. Merkel for saying she wants a strong euro. I place the blame with our own leaders who are not defending our interests. A strong euro is ruining our economy.
SPIEGEL: Why would you say that the euro is only helping Germany?
Le Pen: For a very simple reason: It was created by Germany, for Germany.
SPIEGEL: It was François Mitterand who wanted the euro in order to contain Germany. In fact, it was difficult for the Germans to give up their beloved deutsche mark.
Le Pen: That's another story. Mitterand wanted to push integration forward with the euro. But from an economic standpoint, the euro is German. Were we to return to our national currencies, the D-Mark would be the only one to appreciate in value, which would be a competitive disadvantage for Germany. Our currency, by contrast, would be devalued, which would give us a bit of room to breathe.
SPIEGEL: In other words, votes for EU-skeptics are votes against Germany?
Le Pen: There's no doubt that the model we are advocating is less positive for Germany than the current model. Germany has become the economic heart of Europe because our leaders are weak. But Germany should never forget that France is Europe's political heart. What is happening here today foreshadows what will happen in the rest of Europe in the coming years: the great return of the nation-state, which they wanted to obliterate.
SPIEGEL: Do you see Angela Merkel as an enemy?
Le Pen: I have respect for leaders who defend the interests of their countries. Her policies are positive for Germany, but they are unfortunately harmful for all other countries. My warning is: Be careful Ms. Merkel. If you don't see the suffering that has been imposed on the rest of the European people, then Germany will make itself hated. She believes it is possible to pursue policies In other countries against the will of the people. She would never do that in Germany, where election results are being respected. But she wants to impose her policies on others. This will lead to an explosion of the European Union.
SPIEGEL: Do you really want France to leave the euro?
Le Pen: I have been saying that since the French presidential election campaign. It is a difficult issue and I have taken a big risk. I know very well that the political classes have spread fear among the electorate: Without the euro, the sun will cease shining, the rivers will stop flowing, we will enter an ice age
SPIEGEL: An end to the euro would surely lead to an economic disaster.
Le Pen: I don't believe that at all. It would be an unbelievable opportunity. If we don't all leave the euro behind, it will explode. Either there will be a popular revolt because the people no longer want to be bled out. Or the Germans will say: Stop, we can't pay for the poor anymore.
SPIEGEL: You are now bringing 24 representatives with you to Brussels ...
Le Pen: ... as the fourth biggest party group behind the German Christian Democrats, the Italian Democratic Party and the German Social Democrats.
SPIEGEL: But to build a parliamentary group, you need representatives from seven different countries. You have an agreement with the Dutch right-wing populist Geert Wilders, the FPÖ from Austria, the Lega Nord from Italy and Vlaams Belang from Belgium, but that isn't enough.
Le Pen: I am optimistic that we will be able to establish a parliamentary group. I have a series of meetings coming up soon.
SPIEGEL: The United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP), though EU-skeptic, has refused to cooperate with you. Party head Nigel Farage has said the Front National is anti-Semitic.
Le Pen: And David Cameron says that UKIP members are crazy and racist. I think it is good that UKIP is as strong as we are. But they already have a parliamentary group and see us as competition. Hence, the insulting accusations.
SPIEGEL: Would you like to work together with UKIP?
Le Pen: It would certainly be a possibility. We have the same fundamental approach to Europe.
SPIEGEL: You and your possible allies are all opposed to the European Union. But what, for example, do you have in common beyond that with someone like Geert Wilders?
Le Pen: That's enough!
SPIEGEL: He is in favor of gay rights while you are opposed to gay marriage.
Le Pen: Why should I care about that? For me, the fight for sovereign nations is enough. Everybody should be able to choose according to his own values and history, within a European civilization that we all belong to.
SPIEGEL: You have excluded the possibility of cooperating with right-wing extremists such as the Golden Dawn party from Greece or the German neo-Nazi party NPD. What about Germany's euro-skeptic party AFD?
Le Pen: They have yet to show interest in such a cooperation. We share certain viewpoints with the AFD, but they are not a party of the people. Rather they are an elitist party with a different structure from ours.
SPIEGEL: Is France actually suffering from a kind of depression?
Le Pen: There's something to it. We used to be one of the richest countries in the world, but we are now on a path towards under-development. This austerity that has been imposed on the people doesn't work. The people will not allow themselves to be throttled without revolting.
Le Pen: The French debt will remain massive. The more austerity one imposes, the more growth suffers, the lower tax revenues remain and the higher the budget deficit. Plus, the government has saved by making cuts to useful expenditures instead of to the damaging expenditures. Savings should be made with cuts to the generous social system, which grants illegal immigrants the same protections as it does our citizens. And with welfare fraud; and with the EU contributions, which rise every year.
- Part 1: 'I Don't Want this European Soviet Union'
- Part 2: 'Xenophobia Is the Hatred of Foreigners. I Don't Hate Anyone'
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