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SPIEGEL Interview with German Chancellor Angela Merkel

'The SPD Is a Deeply Divided Party'

In a SPIEGEL interview, Chancellor Angela Merkel talks about the new political landscape in Germany with the onslaught of the far-left Left Party, the possibility of the conservatives and Greens governing together, calls for Germany to beef up its deployment in Afghanistan and recent Paris-Berlin tensions.

SPIEGEL: Ms. Chancellor, can you rule out that your party, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) will ever cooperate with the Left Party?

Merkel: You already know the answer to that question. There are no similarities between the CDU's and the Left Party's platforms, and therefore there is no basis for cooperation. This is also the firm conviction of our members.

SPIEGEL: Those who commit themselves will eventually fail. That's politics. Did Social Democratic Party (SPD) leader Kurt Beck make a mistake when he categorically ruled out cooperating with the Left Party?

Merkel: A year ago, then Vice-Chancellor Franz Müntefering argued that the SPD regional associations should be allowed to decide with whom they wish to cooperate politically. At the time, Mr. Beck consciously opposed this statement. He said very clearly that the SPD would not cooperate with the Left Party in the West, not even at the state level. The fact that he changed his position on such a key issue after the (state) election in Hesse was odd and signifies a very difficult situation for the SPD. I didn't call it a breach of promise for nothing.

SPIEGEL: Will you ever believe anything Kurt Beck says again?

Merkel: In the future, everyone will certainly evaluate the behavior of the SPD and its chairman partly in light of this experience. It's an experience that doesn't go away. But this doesn't mean that I believe that the SPD will no longer abide by any of its agreements. On the contrary, I continue to assume that the agreements reached within the federal government, within the grand coalition (between the CDU and SPD) in Berlin, are valid and will be upheld.

SPIEGEL: How can you be sure of that, if you don't know where you stand with your coalition partner?

Merkel: Because there is no reasonable alternative other than fulfilling the electorate's 2005 vote for the grand coalition, and because voters have a right to be taken seriously. However, they sense that when it comes to its dealings with the Left Party and its issues, the SPD is a deeply divided party. And the Social Democrats are undecided over whether they should emphasize the federal government's joint successes or distance themselves from them.

SPIEGEL: Isn't Oskar Lafontaine a terribly successful politician? Almost everything that is currently happening in politics is happening because of him.

Merkel: I disagree with your assessment. However, it is correct that the Left Party's behavior has changed the party spectrum, and that having competition on the left substantially influences the SPD's policies. The question is: What is the correct response?

SPIEGEL: Are we entering another one of those periods again when everyone promises everything?

Merkel: No. Many people will be promising some things. But the standard is not what succeeds but what's important. The CDU will retain its realistic view of politics.

SPIEGEL: The CDU's majority in the Bundestag relative to the SPD has declined to only one vote. At the same time, a leftist alliance is forming that will force its way into power one day. You must be getting concerned about your chancellorship.

Merkel: The CDU won the (recent) elections by a wide margin in Hamburg and Lower Saxony. Of course, in the 2009 national elections, we will be fighting for a different majority than today. The events of the past week have also produced additional clarification. It is now clear to everyone that the SPD plans to open itself up to the Left Party. This also clarifies things for the 2009 election campaign.

SPIEGEL: What do you, as the CDU's chairwoman, think about the shifts in the party landscape? Does the fact that the SPD is moving away from the center make things easier for you?

Merkel: I believe that the Germans feel a great need for security, in a comprehensive sense. Given the many changes in the last 20 years, this is completely understandable. My concern is that, during the election campaign, too many people will suggest to voters that all of our problems can be solved by spending money to our hearts' content. I want to give citizens a sense of security, but I also want to do what is necessary. The SPD will have to decide which road it wants to take. The CDU, at any rate, is the big, centrist people's party in Germany.

SPIEGEL: What are your power options for 2009? Free Democratic Party (FDP) leader Guido Westerwelle has said that he is disappointed in you personally, because you did not campaign for an alliance with the FDP in the city-state of Hamburg, but instead flirted with the Greens. The FDP now plans to look around for other coalitions.

Merkel: In Hamburg, as in any election, we initially campaigned to make the CDU as strong as possible. And then we made it clear that we favored an alliance with the FDP. In Hesse, the FDP isn't opposed to a Jamaica coalition with the CDU and the Greens. This means that it would also negotiate with the Greens there. Nevertheless, it remains true that the FDP is the party with which the CDU has the most in common.

SPIEGEL: Perhaps it is this pragmatism that offends Guido Westerwelle.

Merkel: Guido Westerwelle is fighting passionately for the success of his FDP. I would like to have seen the FDP capture seats on the Hamburg city council. But now I have to see what sorts of (governing) majorities are possible with this election result -- no more and no less.

SPIEGEL: But you are also not too thrilled about the Greens. For example, you said: "The Greens are a party that has been deprived of its soul as a result of power-sharing." You also said: "The Greens are spineless."

Merkel: You are citing comments that I made to the Greens in concrete situations in the Red-Green coalition (at the federal level between former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's SPD and the Greens). The talks will show whether there is a sustainable basis for a shared government in Hamburg. I tend to consider potential coalitions on a substantive level.

SPIEGEL: A CDU-Green coalition in Hamburg could be quite convenient for you, because it would provide the CDU with new power options.

Merkel: One can't look at it that way. The content is what is important. On a substantive level, there are some significant differences between the CDU and the Greens. Even in areas like climate protection, which is important to both parties, their approaches are very different. The Greens want to get out of nuclear power as quickly as possible, but at the same time they are opposed to new coal power plants. This is not my approach. Besides, it seems clear to me that a "traffic light" coalition with the SPD (red) and the FDP (yellow) is currently still more attractive for the Greens than a coalition with the CDU and the FDP.