• English Site
• >Germany
• >Muslims in Germany
• >

  Interview with Islam Expert Dietrich Reetz: 'Muslims Have a Right to Be Different'

Interview with Islam Expert Dietrich Reetz 'Muslims Have a Right to Be Different'

Part 2: 'Islam Is Easier to Deal with the Less You Interfere'

Reetz: As long as Turkey is not part of the EU, it will be difficult for Turkish Germans, after renouncing their Turkish citizenship, to retain certain rights and opportunities in Turkey. Yet it is in Germany’s interest to quickly integrate immigrants and their families, simply for demographic reasons. Why not turn things around, and guide and support immigration to the point where it becomes one of Germany’s advantages? Living together is certainly not always easy and there is no patented formula -- so we should make people an offer that is attractive to them.

SPIEGEL: Such a project requires contact people on the other side. Are Muslim umbrella organizations more religious communities, cultural associations or political organizations?

Reetz: In this case as well we have to think beyond the legal categories. Most observers agree that Islam is structurally at a disadvantage as compared to Christian churches in Germany and most other European countries, in terms of government neutrality on religious matters or the separation of church and state.

SPIEGEL: Would integration succeed better if Muslims were given the status of a public body, such as Christian churches and Jewish communities have?

Reetz: Such a regulation would probably simplify things. Compared to other European countries we have some catching up to do on institutional regulations, but we also have the chance to avoid problems that have occurred elsewhere. Yet it seems doubtful whether it would make sense to force the various Islamic groups toward an artificial unity. Islam is not a church, it is composed differently. We shouldn’t hinder or destroy the plurality of the religion, because that belongs to the culture as well. Within Islam there are also oppositional communities and groups presenting a kind of counterculture or protest culture, in their native countries as well as in Germany. If a centralized structure were forcibly introduced, it would give some groups the opportunity to dictate one certain interpretation of Islam for everyone and to do away with the plurality. That can’t be in our interest.

SPIEGEL: Why do German authorities find it so difficult, despite the relative national homogeneity of Islam -- over 70 percent of Muslims living in Germany have Turkish origins -- to find reliable, legitimate partners in this dialogue?

Reetz: Turkish ancestry alone doesn’t make for homogeneity among Muslims. Even just within Turkey the Muslim community is very diverse, ranging from Islamist groups to Sufi orders, reform branches and secularized elements. Nor is Turkey ethnically or socially homogeneous -- compare rural Anatolia and urban Istanbul. All this as well as varying degrees of adjustment to a new culture play out here in Germany. And then there are the many currents coming from other origins, such as Arab or Indo-Pakistani regions.

SPIEGEL: Is the concept of multiculturalism defunct, as we so often hear?

Reetz: The question is what you take that to mean. If multiculturalism means living together as opposed to just next to each other, then it probably has a chance. People of different cultures and religions living together shouldn’t cause exclusion or delineation between groups. Today more than in the past there is a recognition that living together means common consciousness and mutual respect. Cooperation and communication are important. And the right to be different is just as legitimate as the right to belong.

SPIEGEL: Is there a secular “Euro-Islam”?

Reetz: There is definitely an adaptation process on the part of individual Muslims as well as whole communities. But that doesn’t preclude diversity. While some think more in terms of preserving their traditions, others want to better adapt to life on German terms by practicing their religion in German. So the term “Euro-Islam” is just a catchword that actually describes several very different processes. Some take it to mean that religious Muslims should concentrate their activities on Europe, rather than on outside authorities. Others want it to mean tendencies toward secularization. Religious Muslims often resist this term, because they are afraid it will be used to separate them from their religion.

SPIEGEL: Muslim critics such as Salman Rushdie themselves warn against Islamist tendencies. Are these warnings off the mark?

Reetz: In this case it has to do more with political than religious problems. It certainly is necessary to deal with tendencies toward Islamist radicalization. But in my opinion these don’t represent the essence of Islam -- just as we can’t reduce Islam to the extreme positions of certain Islamic theologians. To appoint ourselves judges of the differences within Islam won’t help. These religious debates belong within a living tradition such as Islam, just as they belong in Christianity. It is a historical process that should be carried out by these groups themselves. The debate isn’t a new one -- it only becomes problematic for us when someone tries to capitalize on it politically. When some groups become militant, it is mostly not because of religion, but political reasons: they want to bring certain political issues to the forefront, or certain leaders want to keep control over their followers.

SPIEGEL: You’re counting on a resolution from within Islam?

Reetz: Islam is easier to deal with, the less you interfere. Attempts to reform from the outside only lead to strange developments, make things more complicated and get things even more mixed up with political problems. What is important is that everyone complies with the legal system, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims, immigrants or have German ancestry. For me the keyword is mutual trust. Muslims must feel at home here -- and we must be willing to give them that feeling.

SPIEGEL: The population’s fears are certainly very understandable in the face of real and existing Islamist terrorism.

Reetz: It is warranted and certainly also necessary to take on these fears and anxieties. But they should contribute to clarity and understanding, rather than to a further polarization when it comes to the topic of Islam and Muslims. That won’t lead to a solution of the problem of a lack of integration, but only aggravate it.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Reetz, thank you for speaking with us.

Interview conducted by Norbert F. Pötzl and Rainer Traub