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German Greens on Merkel's Management

'Pathetic for a Country that Wants to Be an Engine for Global Growth'

Jürgen Trittin, the Green Party's leading candidate in Germany's upcoming election, discusses his party's successes this year in local ballots, the prospect of a government coalition together with Angela Merkel's conservatives and what he describes as the chancellor's "pathetic" response to the global economic crisis.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Trittin, do the Green Party's voters seem sinister to you?

Trittin: Why should the voters seem sinister to me, after they helped the Greens secure the best election results ever in European and local elections?

SPIEGEL: Because the former protest party is now celebrating many of its successes in solidly conservative places: Stuttgart's southern districts, Berlin's Prenzlauer Berg neighborhood, and even at Starnberg Lake home to the mansions of millionaires near Munich.

Trittin: The Greens have always been the party of educated big city dwellers under 60. It makes sense that some of these people earn a comfortable living. I'm not about to complain about it.

SPIEGEL: Political scientist Franz Walter said: "To put it maliciously, the ordinary Green Party voter is looking more and more like Helmut Kohl."

Trittin: One reason that isn't true is that surveys show that the average Green exercises two to three times a week -- not exactly the lifestyle promoted by Kohl's corpulent physique.

SPIEGEL: (Former Foreign Minister) Joschka Fischer is certainly doing his best at the moment.

Trittin: Well, Joschka was never an average Green Party member.

SPIEGEL: Do you sometimes notice in yourself a tendency toward solid conservatism?

Trittin: The next time I work as a DJ, I'll put on (German rock band) Die Toten Hosen's song, "There are thousands of good reasons to be proud of this country. So why can we suddenly not think of a single one?" If you think that's funny -- there you are.

SPIEGEL: Christian Social Union (CSU, the Bavarian sister party to Chancellor Merkel's Christian Democrats) member and Economics Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, at any rate, feels that the Greens are so successful that he envisions forming a coalition with them.

Trittin: A few months ago, the CSU refused to so much as speak with us. Now it's stalking us, after having lost nine percentage points in the European elections. But Guttenberg wants to extend the operating life of nuclear power plants and supports massive tax cuts. It'll be a short conversation.

SPIEGEL: That doesn't sound like a categorical no.

Trittin: It won't be enough for a coalition in the German federal parliamentary election.

SPIEGEL: Recent surveys speak a different language. German pollster Infratest dimap predicts 36 percent for the CDU/CSU and 13 for the Greens, which could be enough.

Trittin: The CDU/CSU lost 6.7 percentage points in the European election. That would put them below the 30-percent mark in the election for German parliament, the Bundestag.

SPIEGEL: We know that some senior CDU/CSU and Green Party politicians strongly support a black (CDU/CSU) and green (Green Party) coalition.

Trittin: I don't know of any in our party. The CDU/CSU supports nuclear power, tax cuts for those in higher income brackets, fewer restrictions on the financial lobby and a softening of climate protection to favor gas-guzzlers and industry. Those are supposed to be green tendencies?

SPIEGEL: Then let's talk about three-party coalitions. What about the so-called "Jamaica coalition," which would foresee the CDU/CSU, business-friendly liberal Free Democratic Party (FDP) and the Greens together in a broad alliance of middle-class forces in Germany?

Trittin: Forget about it! It would be a losing ticket for the Greens, because we would be in the minority against (CSU Chairman) Horst Seehofer, (Chancellor) Angela Merkel and (Free Democratic Party Chairman) Guido Westerwelle on all major issues: the environment, climate, social justice. It would always be three parties facing off against one. We're not masochists!

SPIEGEL: What about a so-called red-red-green coalition between the Social Democrats, the Left Party and the Greens?

Trittin: First of all, (SPD chancellor candidate) Frank-Walter Steinmeier has ruled out a coalition with (Left Party Co-Chairman Oskar) Lafontaine. Besides, Lafontaine isn't even willing to accept the Lisbon EU reform treaty.

SPIEGEL: The only remaining option to consider is a so-called "traffic light" coalition consisting of the SPD, the Greens and the FDP.

Trittin: The Greens are intent on governing this country, but that includes social and environmental modernization, more civil rights and a reliable foreign policy.

SPIEGEL: Why so complicated? You could just as well state, unequivocally: I can imagine a traffic-light coalition after the election.

Trittin: Because governing is not an end in itself. For us, coalitions will be dependent on whether we are able to achieve our goals.

SPIEGEL: Why is Westerwelle such a bogeyman for the Greens?

Trittin: Guido Westerwelle is no bogeyman. He's a political rival. I do believe, however -- if I may take the liberty of giving him a modest bit of advice -- that his one-point campaign is completely off-base. No one believes that there is money for tax cuts when we need billions to bolster the economy.

SPIEGEL: What will the Green election campaign look like?

Trittin: We want to create a million jobs in the next four years. Germany is taking the wrong approach to combating the crisis. US President Barack Obama spends $787 billion (€566 billion) to counteract the recession, and he wants to create 5 million green jobs by investing in green projects. The Chinese are spending $500 billion on similar programs. The German government's contribution is ridiculously low by comparison -- all of €80 billion. This is a pathetic display for a country that wants to be an engine for growth in the global economy.

SPIEGEL: Obama has to take responsibility for a 13-percent budget deficit this year. Do you seriously want to accumulate such a mountain of debt?

Trittin: First of all, it's important to note that the coalition has thrown a lot of money out the window, such as €10 billion for a tax cut that primarily benefits those with higher incomes. They aren't taking the money and spending it in stores -- they are buying government bonds. Great economic stimulus program!

SPIEGEL: What would the Green Party's economic stimulus program look like?

Trittin: Massive investments in renewable energy and education. We would raise the Hartz IV rates to €420 (eds: the current level of this welfare payment for Germany's long-term unemployed is €351 per month) and introduce a minimum wage. The effects would be felt immediately, because low wage earners have no other option than to spend the money right away.

SPIEGEL: How much will that cost?

Trittin: €20 billion ($28 billion) a year, or €80 billion ($112 billion) through 2013.

SPIEGEL: And how is that supposed to work? According to a recent tax revenue estimate, the government stands to lose more than €300 billion in revenues by 2013.

Trittin: First, we will raise the maximum tax rate from 42 to 45 percent. Second, there will be a capital levy. We don't understand why those responsible for the crisis -- primarily the ultra-rich -- shouldn't contribute to fighting it. Third, we want to phase out (Germany's) joint tax declarations for married couples. We want to support life with children, not marriages in which there is only one earner.