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Interview with SPD Leader Franz Müntefering

'Merkel Can Start Packing Her Moving Boxes'

Franz Müntefering, 69, the chairman of Germany's center-left Social Democrats, talks to SPIEGEL about Germany's upcoming national elections on Sept. 27, government bailouts for industry and his relationship with a 29-year-old party colleague.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Müntefering, you are considered perhaps the greatest living campaign strategist in Germany. People say you have magical powers. Are you proud of your reputation?

Franz Müntefering: Campaigning has always been enjoyable for me, at least. Take (the German election years of) 1998, 2002, 2005 -- those were some pretty strong campaigns we put together. We'll be doing the same thing this year.

SPIEGEL: For the record: What does the art of campaigning consist of?

Müntefering: A sensitivity to the situation. Flexibility within the movement.

SPIEGEL: That sounds pretty simple.

Müntefering: But it isn't.

SPIEGEL: What, in particular, do you like about campaigns?

Müntefering: That they represent democracy in a nutshell. The parties present themselves, sometimes in a confrontational way, and the differences between the parties become apparent. They communicate their political goals for the coming years -- or at least we do.

SPIEGEL: These days, though, it seems as if the magician has lost his powers. Nothing you have tried out so far during this election year has improved your party's standing. Recent Forsa polls have put support for the SPD as low as 21 percent, with your party as much as 16 points behind Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and its sister party, Bavaria's Christian Social Union. Are you off your game?

Müntefering: The campaign hasn't even started yet.

SPIEGEL: The conservative German newspaper Die Welt recently wrote the following about you: "The chairman is paralyzed. It is abundantly clear that Müntefering, whose instincts were once almost always on the mark, doesn't know what to do anymore."

Müntefering: Other papers have written other things. Is Die Welt the only publication you read?

SPIEGEL: During the European elections, you advocated the use of government funds to rescue companies like the troubled carmaker Opel and the German retail and travel group Arcandor. It was an approach that wasn't popular with voters. What happened to your instincts?

Müntefering: I agree with former Chancellor Willy Brandt, who said: If you are confident about a political argument, you cannot change your position, even if it isn't popular yet. In that case, you have to do whatever it takes to make it popular. That's what we'll do. Securing and creating jobs is our priority.

SPIEGEL: You sounded disappointed in voters after the European election, when you said: "Sometimes you can be right and yet you don't prevail anyway." Do you wish you had a different electorate?

Müntefering: No. Convincing people is much more exciting. And that's what we will do. Merkel can start packing her moving boxes.

SPIEGEL: Where do you expect the SPD to look for help? Heaven?

Müntefering: If the dear Lord is how I imagine him to be, then he's on our side.

SPIEGEL: And if not?

Müntefering: Then we'll do it on our own. The campaign begins in early to mid-August, and only then will voters discover who is saying what and who is providing answers for the future. Only then will they realize that the Christian Democrats have nothing to offer in terms of substance.

SPIEGEL: Isn't mid-August too late?

Müntefering: Remember, in 2005 the election was on Sept. 15 and the campaign began on Aug. 13. In other words, we made huge gains on the CDU's lead in only five weeks. Starting earlier doesn't make any sense, because you only get one chance. It's nerve-wracking, I know, but we can handle it. And we have the right sense of pacing.

SPIEGEL: In 2005, you were fortunate in that you had clear targets to attack. There were the neo-liberal resolutions that the CDU adopted at its party convention in Leipzig. Then there was the Heidelberg professor Paul Kirchhof, who Merkel appointed as her shadow finance minister and who later became a millstone around her neck. And there were the CDU's plans to raise the rate of value-added tax, leading the SPD to speak derisively of a "Merkel tax." All these things cost the CDU valuable support. You don't have anything like that this year.

Müntefering: Ms. Merkel doesn't want to campaign this year. All she wants to do is glide regally through to re-election. But we won't let her do that. We are making it clear that we are the only party whose campaign platform focuses on jobs, education and sustainability -- a genuine social market economy, in other words.

SPIEGEL: Does your recent campaign against the nuclear industry mean you're clutching at straws?

Müntefering: No. It's a reaction which is completely necessary. What happened at the Krümmel nuclear power plant is outrageous. All I can say is: It's time to shut that thing down, once and for all. Vattenfall doesn't seem capable of operating this nuclear power plant with the proper care. People are worried, and justifiably so.

SPIEGEL: The Christian Democrats accuse you of scaremongering.

Müntefering: The CDU is downplaying the issue and wants to break the current consensus on nuclear power. But we will make sure that the existing consensus is implemented, in the form of a gradual phase-out. (Ed's note: The SPD and their coalition partners the Greens, under then-Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, passed a law in 2000 mandating the phase-out of nuclear power in Germany .) The problematic old reactors will be phased out by the end of the next legislative period, and Krümmel will be taken offline immediately.

SPIEGEL: You once said that campaigns ought to be run "in a witty, clever and ironic way," instead of being "wildly belligerent." Is this still true?

Müntefering: One should try to keep things relaxed as often as possible. However, caution is also necessary. Irony doesn't always pay off, because it isn't always understood.

SPIEGEL: There wasn't much irony at play during your party's recent spat with Economics Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg over rescuing Opel. In fact, the SPD was pretty aggressive. Why doesn't anyone listen to you?

Müntefering: Don't worry about that. You can't always be calculating. Sometimes you also have to say what's on your mind, otherwise you'll give yourself an ulcer.