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  SPIEGEL Interview with Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble: "We Have No Relationship to our Diverse Muslim Society"

SPIEGEL Interview with Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble "We Have No Relationship to our Diverse Muslim Society"

Part 2: "I want to see sermons held in German"

Schäuble: During the cartoon controversy, some very credible and smart people debated whether it was a good idea to publish the images, because as they claimed, even freedom of the press should have its limits. That was a mixture of do-good idealism and fear. My view on this issue is quite clear: There are tasteful and less tasteful cartoons, but we must tolerate them, and we cannot start qualifying them. Those who constantly qualify everything and have no opinions of their own are ultimately just as incapable of tolerance.

SPIEGEL: You had no objections to the publishing of the cartoons?

Schäuble: I didn't like the cartoons, but the fact that they were printed, also in the German media, is legitimate. I will always defend the right to do this.

SPIEGEL: Do you agree with your predecessor, Otto Schily, who wanted to see Islam subjected to a period of enlightenment?

Schäuble: I don't want to change Islam, but if there is to be a European Islam, it must incorporate European values. During the centuries-long process of Reformation and Enlightenment, Christian churches had to accept some things they didn't like. Islam will have to do the same; otherwise it isn't part of Europe.

SPIEGEL: Teachers in some Berlin neighborhoods like Neukölln see strong tendencies toward the radicalization of young people, coupled with rising levels of aggression.

Schäuble: No one disputes that. Social problems and a development toward religious fundamentalism are, of course, related, because many turn to religion for direction. But we are seeing a general integration problem, as are the French: Parts of the third generation are less well integrated than the first. One of our main goals is to change this. Part of this effort will be to offer Islamic instruction in German in our schools, so it will be clear that schools are not something that threatens Islamic identity.

SPIEGEL: Will the role of women in the Muslim community play a role at the conference?

Schäuble: That's unavoidable. It's one of the central problems that come up in day-to-day life here, and it starts in school. Girls can't be excluded from physical education or class trips. If Muslims want to be accepted here, then those things must stop.

SPIEGEL: The fact that German students are being chased across the schoolyard and called "Christian pigs" -- that they need police protection to go to school -- illustrates the reality that Islamism does exist here.

Schäuble: That's certainly true. But we are also aware of the way Gerald Asamoah and other dark-skinned players are sometimes treated in German football stadiums.

SPIEGEL: Do you share the concerns of author Botho Strauß, who predicts that the problem of tolerance might be reversed in the future, because we could soon see a shift in population majorities in major cities?

Schäuble: Botho Strauß is a brilliant and sometimes difficult author, and I am the federal interior minister. We have different responsibilities. My job is not to predict everything that might happen in the future, but to address what we can do today. We must accept the fact that, in the world of the 21st century, we will be living together with people from other parts of the world to a far greater extent than our grandparents could have imagined.

SPIEGEL: The construction of new mosques has sparked controversy in various parts of Germany. What carries more weight: the constitutional right to religious freedom or the concern that a new mosque might not be good for integration in a certain district?

Schäuble: Most of the mosques were built in our cities in recent years because Turkish citizens in those neighborhoods feel a growing need for places to pray. Naturally, religious freedom means that everyone is allowed to build his own house of worship. But it reminds me of something former (German) President Johannes Rau once said -- that he'd find it easier to support mosque construction in Germany if it weren't so difficult for Christians to build churches in Turkey.

SPIEGEL: Many imams in the mosques have received fundamentalist training in Saudi Arabia. How do you intend to prevent this body of thought from being preached here?

Schäuble: I want to see religious instruction and sermons held in German in the mosques. The ideal, in my view, would be for imams to be trained in Germany and to speak our language, just as the Roman Catholic Church now holds mass in German and gave up Latin long ago.

SPIEGEL: Will the federal interior minister soon become the educator-in-chief of all imams?

Schäuble: Certainly not. It isn't something that the state can do alone, and that would be inappropriate. When it comes to training imams, one needs a partner. But if we want the mosques to preach peaceful coexistence, we will have to do something about it. One goal of the conference is to find a partner for the training of imams and teachers of Islam in schools.

SPIEGEL: How long will it take before we see results?

Schäuble: A wide range of efforts is underway. Religion teachers for Islam instruction are being trained now in Münster and Erlangen. This has to happen quickly. My goal is to achieve relevant results within two years.

SPIEGEL: What conclusions do you draw from the case of the suitcase bombers?

Schäuble: Just after the incident, I not only asked the police and intelligence services to learn what we could from from the case, but also looked at our immigration laws to find areas that needed improvement. For example, in the future we will take a closer look at both those who issue invitations to foreigners to come to Germany and those who provide them with letters of recommendation. But we have to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. After all, we do want young people from other countries to study in Germany.

SPIEGEL: Isn't it also true that despite the counterterrorism database, computer surveillance and large-scale wiretapping operations, the two Lebanese managed to remain undetected?

Schäuble: By keeping tabs on those who invited them into the country, we probably could have been observing one of the two arrested suspects at a relatively early point. For example, if we had noticed the comments he made in public during the debates over the Danish cartoons, perhaps someone would have paid closer attention.

SPIEGEL: You want to extend the Anti-Terror Law as well as the law governing the counterterrorism database. Investigators have never had more tools at their disposal than they do today. Are you satisfied?

Schäuble: We need more personnel within our security agencies. For example, we need people with relevant language skills to monitor the Internet. I am negotiating with the finance minister and the budget committee for approval of a program that would cost in the double-digit millions. But you're absolutely right: The next step is a question of actual practice. I can't think of many other laws we might need. For now, though, we'll be talking to German Muslims over issues of coexistence.

SPIEGEL: You seem quite optimistic.

Schäuble: If we want to avoid a clash of cultures -- and the jury is still out on whether we can -- we'll have to make different cultures and religions compatible with the universal nature of human rights and tolerance. But I can promise you this: Anyone who calls me an infidel at the conference will be in for a fight.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Minister, thank you for this interview.

Interview conducted by editors Jan Fleischhauer and Holger Stark.

Translated from German by Christopher Sultan.