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  SPIEGEL Interview with Ehud Olmert: Israel Doesn't Rule out Military Strike on Iran

SPIEGEL Interview with Ehud Olmert Israel Doesn't Rule out Military Strike on Iran

Part 2: Is UNIFIL useless?

SPIEGEL: Hezbollah is trying to rearm itself. And the UNIFIL mission cannot prevent arms smuggling.

Olmert: This is what UNIFIL is supposed to do, according to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701. But if the UN soldiers don't exercise their authority in an appropriate manner, the outcome may be very bad.

SPIEGEL: Is the UNIFIL force -- which also includes German troops in their first post-World War II deployment to the Middle East -- useless?

Olmert: The problem is that the Syrian border is not guarded by the international force. It is supposed to be guarded by the Lebanese forces but we have good reason to doubt that the Lebanese are doing this.

SPIEGEL: Are the Israeli failures before and during the war the reason why your government is experiencing a loss of public support?

Olmert: Yes, the polls are certainly not very positive. The outcome of the war was not the one that Israelis would normally expect. But we have never had a war against a guerilla force. In the past we fought against regular armies and it was easier to present the victory so that people could identify with it.

SPIEGEL: Many Israelis feel that all attempts to solve the conflict with the Arabs have resulted in failure. The Israeli right ignored the conflict for a long time. The left believed in dialogue, but the Oslo Accords and Camp David talks ultimately failed. And the third way, a unilateral withdrawal which your predessessor Ariel Sharon started, is also leading nowhere.

Olmert: I have to correct you. The only ones who made significant peace treaties were the so-called right-wingers. We, I mean when I was in the right wing, ...

SPIEGEL: ... before you left the Likud and established the Kadima Party with Sharon ...

Olmert: ... did not ignore the conflict. We were just skeptical about the negotiating paths that were opened by the left. But I can best speak for myself: I went through a process of change. I am ready to move forward. We don't look for excuses. I am ready to meet with Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman of the Palestinian Authority, at any time, any place, without preconditions. I will not leave one stone unturned in my efforts to solve the conflict.

SPIEGEL: So far, you've been all nice talk in your speeches, like the one you gave two weeks ago at the grave of the first Israeli Prime Minister Ben-Gurion. In that speech you said that Israel is willing to withdraw from many territories in the West Bank. How many?

Olmert: The majority.

SPIEGEL: What's the majority? Fifty-one percent? Ninety percent?

Olmert: This is a very delicate question. A prime minister must not promise things that can't be fulfilled. But my message is clear: I am ready to pull out of territories, which means that I am ready to dismantle settlements. You know how difficult that is. And we are ready to do it in such a way that will allow the Palestinians in the West Bank to have a contiguous territory for a Palestinian State. So the degree of the Israeli concession has to be at least such that it will allow the Palestinians to establish a Palestinian State on contiguous territory. I do not create any conditions that were not set forth by the international community.

SPIEGEL: You said in your election campaign that you want to create a border which will be recognized by the international community. The only internationally recognized border is the one set in 1967.

Olmert: I don't know if the whole world takes that view. For instance, President Bush's letter of April 14, 2004 does not necessarily suggest that America accepts the 1967 (border) as the only possible solution.

SPIEGEL: But you need the Europeans.

Olmert: That's right. I am ready to engage in serious dialogue. There was a time when Europe was not considered as balanced enough in terms of its political attitudes to take on an active role in the Middle East. That has changed substantially. And that is also due to the influence of Chancellor Angela Merkel. She appears to me to be one of the most serious, thoughtful and responsible leaders that Europe has had in years.

SPIEGEL: How does she differ from her predecessor Gerhard Schröder when it comes to the Middle East?

Olmert: I only met Schröder once when he was still premier of the state of Lower Saxony. At that time he was friendlier than when he was chancellor. But Chancellor Merkel is fantastic. She is certainly more open to hearing Israel's arguments. Therefore, I think it is premature to reach the conclusion that Europe would necessarily be united on the demand for the 1967 line.

SPIEGEL: Your education minister has ordered that the 1967 border be placed in all school textbooks.

Olmert: Mentioning the '67 borders as part of a broader historical context is legitimate, but it is the policy of my government that we should not return to the '67 line.

SPIEGEL: But what's the problem with the '67 borders?

Olmert: They are indefensible. And also that in the meantime, facts were created ...

SPIEGEL: ... created by Israel: the settlements.

Olmert: Of course by Israel. But also by the refusal of the Palestinians to accept the principles of human decency that could allow negotiations to take place 25 years ago. The fact is that even today the majority of the Palestinians are still totally dedicated to policies that are not acceptable to the international community.

SPIEGEL: But the settlements are also not acceptable to the international community. Take, for example, the 130 settlement outposts that, even according to Israeli law, are illegal. In your government coalition agreement you actually announced that you would dismantle the outposts, but so far you haven't removed a single one.

Olmert: There was the outpost of Amona.

SPIEGEL: Not the whole outpost, only seven houses belonging to it. And that was before you signed the coalition agreement.

Olmert: It was an event of national proportions.

SPIEGEL: But since then nothing has happened.

Olmert: It will happen.

SPIEGEL: When?

Olmert: It will take time. You have to prepare the homefront for this. Since we pulled out from Gaza, there has not been one day without Qassam rockets falling on the heads of our people. There was the war in Lebanon. A prime minister has to keep a certain balance when dealing with sensitive issues. I currently don't have enough political energy to also enter into a major confrontation over the outposts.

SPIEGEL: Instead of dismantling outposts, you invited a promiment right-winger like Avigdor Lieberman to join your coalition. Both the Israeli public and the international community found that a little confusing -- to say the least.

Olmert: I have no doubt that the international community is intelligent enough to understand the wisdom of this move.

SPIEGEL: We do have some doubts.

Olmert: I haven't changed my policies. I needed a broader basis for the government, and if Lieberman helps build this broader base why should I be against his entry into the government? Is Angela Merkel entirely happy to have a coalition with the Social Democrats? This is politics.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, we thank you very much for this interview.

Interview conducted by the SPIEGEL editors Martin Doerry, Christian Neef and Christoph Schult.