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  SPIEGEL Interview with Condoleezza Rice: "We Feel We Have a Responsibility to the World"

SPIEGEL Interview with Condoleezza Rice "We Feel We Have a Responsibility to the World"

Part 2

SPIEGEL: What information do you actually have about Iranian support for militias and insurgents in Iraq?

RICE: We believe that there are networks that are financed and sometimes perhaps trained by some elements in Iran. Some of these explosive devices are extremely sophisticated and these are not technologies that one gets off the shelf, so to speak. So the president has made clear that we will go after those networks. We will do it in Iraq.

SPIEGEL: Will you cross over the border into Iran?

RICE: General Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was asked this and he said the American military has not even asked about that because they believe this is something that can be done in Iraq. We are not trying to escalate this. Our plan is to try to respond to Iranian activity that is harming us.

SPIEGEL: Do you believe there is a risk of escalation if you go after the Iranian networks in Iraq?

RICE: I think the Iranians should stop what they're doing. We're not going to sit by and let them engage in activities that kill our soldiers.

SPIEGEL: Let's discuss sanctions against Iran. The United Nations Security Council has passed a resolution under Chapter 7 of the UN charter. Do you have any suggestions on how ...

RICE: ... We'll talk to the allies about what do in the next round.

SPIEGEL: You would like to see tougher sanctions. Should German companies and banks curtail their business relations with Iran or eliminate them altogether?

RICE: This is a decision for the private sector. But I will say this: I've been a corporate director, I've been in that world. And you know, I think people ought to think about the risk of doing business with Iran. I think people ought to think about the risk of further sanctions. The United States is clearly sanctioning Iranian banks and our laws are very tough on those who deal with banks that we have sanctioned.

And so I would just say that this is a time for everybody to look at what Iran is. Iran is a state under a Chapter 7 resolution. They're in very, very small company along with North Korea, Sudan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Liberia, two countries that I think will get out of Chapter 7 now. Being in Chapter 7 is hardly the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

SPIEGEL: The non-partisan Baker-Hamilton Commission released a report in December calling for an international conference on the future of Iraq and the crisis region that surrounds it. You don't consider that to be a good idea. Would you prefer to go step by step and talk separately with each player in the Middle East?

RICE: Well, let's remember that there's a lot of diplomacy going on. The Iraqis are running their own diplomacy, so they are going to talk to Iran, they're going to talk to Syria. The region has what they are calling the Arab Initiative for Reconciliation, which is an Arab League initiative. That includes everyone. The international compact which Iraq and the UN run together is an opportunity for all of Iran's neighbors to be there, including Iran and Syria. We had a meeting in New York. The Iranians were there. The Syrians were there. This was at the time of the United Nations General Assembly. So there are forums.

If the Iranians and the Syrians wish to support stability in Iraq, there are plenty of ways for them to do it. The notion that if we just talk to them, then they would suddenly be prepared to stabilize Iraq is not right. You can't just talk about talks -- you have to say what would come of this. Imagine if we were to sit down with the Iranians. Does anyone really believe that they will say, all right, we'll talk about stabilizing Iraq over here, but we have no demands about our nuclear program. Or with the Syrians, oh yes, we’ll talk about stabilizing Iraq, but we have no demands about Lebanon. Of course, the only reason to talk to us would be to extract a price; and that's not diplomacy, that's extortion.

SPIEGEL: How do you feel about the talks that took place between Syria and Israel that ended last summer?

RICE: These were apparently not government-sponsored and Prime Minister Olmert has spoken. Everybody would like to see peace between Israel and Syria, too. But Syria is currently engaged in behavior that is not stabilizing in the region. And in fact, just as the world is trying to strengthen Mahmoud Abbas, they continue to deal with elements of the Palestinians that are trying to destabilize the situation.

SPIEGEL: But isn't it useful to bring Syria into talks and, if possible, also discuss the Golan Heights in order to engage them?

RICE: As I've said to you, they don't need us to tell them what they need to do. And I'm concerned that the purpose of having the discussions with us might be to extract a price, and it's a price we're not prepared to pay.

SPIEGEL: Madame Secretary, we thank you for this interview.

Interview conducted by the SPIEGEL editors Stefan Aust, Ralf Beste, Georg Mascolo and Gerhard Spörl.

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