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  SPIEGEL Interview with Taiwanese President Chen Shui-Bian: 'China Is Trying to Push Us up against a Wall'

SPIEGEL Interview with Taiwanese President Chen Shui-Bian 'China Is Trying to Push Us up against a Wall'

Part 2: 'We See Germany as a Model'

SPIEGEL: If we understand you correctly, Taiwan has strong trade relations with China, but you don't trust the communist leadership in the least. And the world shouldn't trust it either?

Chen: Western countries should not overlook the fact that the Chinese threaten Taiwan militarily. They had about 200 missiles pointed at us in 2000. Today it's 988. Beijing has increased its military budget by a double-digit percentage each year since 1989. An anti-secession law was adopted in 2005, creating a legal basis for an attack on Taiwan. The Chinese military is expected to be capable of attacking Taiwan by 2010, and conquering the entire island in a single strike by 2015. The world should not ignore these facts.

SPIEGEL: At least the EU is adhering to its arms embargo against China.

Chen: Unfortunately your former chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, was in favor of lifting the embargo. We are very grateful to Ms. Merkel that she takes a different view. We understand that many countries want to do business with China, but the human rights of 23 million Taiwanese shouldn't be forgotten in the process.

SPIEGEL: The leadership in Beijing has reacted very nervously to your referendum. This was to be expected. Are you playing with fire?

Chen: No, we are strengthening our democracy. The Chinese are using military power in an attempt to change the situation in the Taiwan Strait. Those who threaten us with missiles are playing with fire.

SPIEGEL: Your desire to be admitted into the UN would be more likely to succeed if you could come to terms with Beijing -- just as the two German nations did 35 years ago.

Chen: We want to negotiate with China, and we see Germany as a model. But for the Chinese there is nothing but the One China policy. Beijing apparently has no interest in dialogue.

SPIEGEL: But you consider reunification with China both possible and desirable?

Chen: We have no way of knowing what will happen in the future. Currently, at any rate, reunification is out of the question.

SPIEGEL: A problem that you were unable to resolve with Beijing was the route of the Olympic flame. Taiwan decided not to be part of the torch relay route. Why?

Chen: China wanted to humiliate us. It insisted that the flame be transported from Taiwan to Hong Kong and Macau, to create the impression that Taiwan is part of China. They also wanted to forbid our people from displaying our flag on the street and singing our national anthem when the runners passed by. We could not accept these conditions, which would have humiliated and degraded us, under any circumstances. That's why we decided not to have the flame in Taiwan.

SPIEGEL: Taiwan will take part in the games next summer under the name "Chinese Taipei" and will be flying a neutral flag.

Chen: We have used this name in international sporting events since the 1980s. We are not pleased about it. We are Taiwanese on the inside.

SPIEGEL: Chancellor Merkel planned to meet with the Dalai Lama, the exiled leader of Tibet, a Chinese region, last Sunday. Do you envy him?

Chen: It isn't a question of envy, although you have to ask yourself the question: Why is the exiled Tibetan regent being received, while we are not?

Interview conducted by Andreas Lorenz, Gerhard Spörl

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