SPIEGEL: You paint a rather rosy picture. But isn't OPEC also affected by the diverging interests of its members? Wasn't there a substantial dispute at your last major meeting -- one that pitted Iran and Venezuela, with their ideas about high prices and their anti-Western agenda, against the "moderates"?
El-Badri : We leave politics up to the individual member nations. OPEC is an economic organization. Besides, it wasn't a real dispute. We speak with one voice. However, we did have a lively discussion in November over whether and how we should generally shift from the reserve currency, the dollar, to the euro for purposes of trading. Some of our member nations have enormous dollar reserves, while others sell in dollars and buy in euros.
SPIEGEL: And are you in favor of abandoning the practice of trading in dollars as Venezuela and Iran have demanded?
El-Badri : The euro is currently the world's strongest currency. A change can be made, but it will take some time. It took many years for the dollar to become a dominant currency in the oil business. But in the future it will not be that difficult to change.
SPIEGEL: Angola and Ecuador were accepted as members of OPEC last year. Should Russia join?
El-Badri : We don't knock on anybody's door.
SPIEGEL: But wouldn't you like to see Moscow knocking on your door? With the Russians on board, with their enormous production capacities and even bigger reserves, OPEC could truly set prices.
El-Badri : Once again, we don't want to dictate anything.
SPIEGEL: (Russian) President Vladimir Putin certainly has other ideas. Last year he called the idea of a cartel for natural gas -- the world's second-most important natural resource, which is tied to the oil price -- a "very interesting idea." He has already begun promoting the concept in Iran, Qatar and Algeria. Are you concerned about this sort of a "counter-OPEC," and do you think it has potential?
El-Badri : This sort of organization may be an option in the longterm, but the gas producers are tied to supply agreements, some for 30 years -- it's not like crude. But we at OPEC do not see this as a threat.
SPIEGEL: There has been a worldwide trend toward re-nationalization of energy reserves in recent years. While multinational companies like Exxon, Shell and BP controlled the market two decades ago, nowadays 77 percent of all oil reserves are in the hands of national and, in many cases, relatively inefficient oil companies in the production countries. Wouldn't it be better if more private, and thus more transparent, companies dominated the market instead of these national dinosaurs?
El-Badri : The international oil companies are the real dinosaurs, not we at OPEC. The multinationals have changed their philosophy in recent years, but they still have a long way to go. They need to hire and train more local people. And they should invest more in the exploration of fields and in new technologies. They also have to be very gentle with the production profile of every country.
SPIEGEL: You recently spoke out against biofuels. Why?
El-Badri : I have nothing against biofuels, or against any other forms of alternative energy. All I wanted to say was that one shouldn't invest in something that ultimately cannot be brought to fruition, at least not on a large scale. Biofuels are not a savior at all. The production of biofuel comes at the expense of food reserves and water. It requires precious agricultural land that could be planted with other crops. At the end of the day the consumer will pay the price.
SPIEGEL: How do you feel about the international resurgence of nuclear energy? Does nuclear power belong in the energy mix of industrialized countries?
El-Badri : As long as safety can be guaranteed -- why not?
SPIEGEL: You're not convinced that modern nuclear power plants are safe?
El-Badri : It's an extremely dangerous technology. As we have seen in Chernobyl, even a single accident can have devastating consequences.
US President George W. Bush drinks tea as he sits with Saudi King Abdullah on Jan. 15, 2008. "The problems we are currently seeing in the United States have nothing to do with OPEC," says el-Badri.
El-Badri : Before this technology can benefit Libya, it will have to train many specialists and it will require a great deal of technology transfer.
SPIEGEL: You recently said that OPEC is deeply concerned about climate change and does a lot to protect the environment. Really? Did we miss something?
El-Badri : We are significantly reducing flaring, tremendously. Besides, the leaders of the OPEC countries believe that they should also invest in other environmentally friendly technologies. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates have agreed to pay $750 million into a fund to research environmental problems. I am convinced that other members will follow their example.
SPIEGEL: In other words, the environmental initiative is not binding for all OPEC countries.
El-Badri : No, it's not. Saudi Arabia invited other members to contribute, but its up to the countries themselves.
SPIEGEL: You have been familiar with OPEC for a long time. You have observed the organization from very different perspectives, including as a manager of both private and state-owned oil companies and as an energy minister. How has the cartel changed?
El-Badri : OPEC is the oldest surviving organization that consists exclusively of Third World countries. It's now almost 48 years old, and it has members from Africa, Asia and South America. It is a success story. It is getting stronger and stronger, year in and year out. We are able to control our reserves. OPEC promotes energy security for the entire world and doesn't limit itself to the individual interests of its members.
SPIEGEL: What would the world look like without OPEC?
El-Badri : I think the world is a better place because of OPEC. The world would not be as safe a place without this organization, because we guarantee a stable petroleum market. In doing so, we also contribute to overall world stability on the energy side.
SPIEGEL: Last Wednesday, President Bush practically issued an ultimatum to OPEC to increase production volume, which would bring down prices. Will you comply with his request at your next OPEC meeting on Feb. 1.?
El-Badri : The problems we are currently seeing in the United States have nothing to do with OPEC. I already mentioned the homegrown financial crisis. The Americans have also let things go when it comes to oil refining. They've invested far too little in their refinery capacities in the last 30 years. They consume 21 million barrels a day but can only refine 17 million. Even if you were to add more oil to the US market, they don't have the capacity to refine it -- and it won't solve the bottleneck problem.
SPIEGEL: Are you saying that no decisions will be made in Vienna next week?
El-Badri : I didn't say that. We are carefully analyzing the market, day in and day out. If we conclude that the fundamentals require that, our ministers will not hesitate to increase production. But at the moment we do not see any need for that.
SPIEGEL: Mr. Secretary General, we thank you for this interview.
Interview conducted by Erich Follath and Marion Kraske.
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