Interview with Harun Yahya
'All Terrorists Are Darwinists'
Adnan Oktar (aka Harun Yahya) is one of Turkey's major proponents of creationism and he believes Darwin's theory of evolution is the Devil's work. In a SPIEGEL ONLINE interview, he explains how he plans to defeat Darwinism.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Virtually every respected biologist in the world considers the theory of evolution as perhaps the best-proven scientific theory ever, on par with the knowledge that the world is round. How do you want to prove them wrong?
Adnan Oktar: First of all, there are 100 million fossils that prove creation. And these have never changed in any respect. For example, fish have always been fish, shrimp have always been shrimp, and crabs have always been crabs. And their fossils are on display in every corner of the world. We displayed them in Turkey as well, and people saw them with their own eyes. First and foremost, this is a clear proof. Secondly, in contrast to creation, Darwinism does not have a single piece of evidence demonstrating the theory of evolution. Its proponents don’t have any fossil evidence, of the kind which they should be able to put forward.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Last year, the Council of Europe even asked its member states not to teach creationism along with the theory of evolution in schools. Do you consider this a defeat?
Oktar: Darwinism is under official protection throughout the world. No other ideology in history, no other idea, has ever been kept under such strict official protection. To make any kind of statement criticizing Darwinism causes an official reaction. However, the invalidity of Darwinism and the actuality of creation are scientific facts. Anyone reading or looking over my "Atlas of Creation" arrives at this opinion. Darwinism lies about many issues and deceives humanity. They have deceived the whole of humanity for 150 years.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How much were you influenced by Christian movements, the so-called intelligent design movements in Europe and the United States?
Oktar: I find the concept of intelligent design rather dishonest. One should openly stand up for the existence of Allah, should sincerely stand up for religion, for Islam. Or, if one is a Christian, one should honestly stand up for Christianity. This is a theory which claims that things have somehow been created, but it is unknown who created them. I find this rather dishonest, actually. The followers of intelligent design should openly and clearly declare the existence of Allah as the Creator.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Richard Dawkins, one of the most prominent figures of the new atheism, recently had his book "The God Delusion" translated into Turkish. In Turkey, 15,000 copies were reportedly sold. In it, he writes that religion is one of the causes of terrorism.
Oktar: Darwinism has laid the groundwork for Hitler's and Mussolini's fascism and Stalin's communism. And when we look at the present day, we see that all the members of terrorist organizations -- even those that portray themselves as Muslim organizations -- are Darwinists, atheists. That is to say, a faithful person who prays regularly does not go and plant bombs here and there. It is just people who pretend to be Muslims, those who depict themselves as Muslims, who perpetrate bombings, or Darwinists who make it clear that they are terrorists or communists who commit terrorism. Consequently, they are all Darwinists.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do you really think that someone like Osama bin Laden, who justifies terrorist acts using the Koran and the alleged ungodliness of the west, is following Darwinist ideas?
Oktar: Things are not what they seem to be. You do not see that appearance and style in such people in their youth. Yet, when their actual faith is scrutinized, it emerges that they are genuine materialists and Darwinists. It is impossible for a person who fears Allah to commit terrorist acts because of his faith. Such acts are committed by people who were educated abroad, who received a Darwinist education and who internalized Darwinism, but who later called themselves Muslims. When scrutinized carefully, when their speech and essays are carefully analyzed, we see that all these people are Darwinists.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Speaking of Hitler and fascism: On your Web site, you condemn the Holocaust and link it to Darwinism. But, in the early 1990s, you published a book about the so-called "Holocaust Lie."
COUNTERING SCIENCE WITH THE WORD OF GOD
Charles Darwin founded the study of evolution with the 1859 publication of his book "On the Origin of Species." His work not only revolutionized the natural sciences; it also dealt a severe blow to theistic religions by saying that life on Earth was determined by natural selection rather than God's creation. The religious establishment has feared that the theory would threaten the importance given to God.
Creationism posits that the universe, Earth and all forms of life came about in the way described in the Old Testament. However, there are a number of different currents to the theory of Creationism. Less radical adherents believe that the Old Testament provides only an approximate account of events which should not be taken literally -- or that the six days mentioned in the Old Testament in reality correspond to much longer geological periods. Adherents of "Young Earth creationism," however, believe that God created Earth and life in six 24-hour periods -- and no more than 10,000 years ago.
Camouflaged fundamentalism: The supporters of intelligent design -- a pseudo-scientific version of creationism -- don't talk about God but about a supernatural intelligence behind all things. Adherents of creationism in the US began calling it "intelligent design" primarily for legal reasons because US courts had forbidden religious instruction at public schools on a number of occasions. Using this new label, adherents try to claim that their belief is equally deserving of being taught as the theory of evolution. At the same time, they also take advantage of the fact that the word "theory" also carries the connotation of being a mere guess. In the sciences, however, coming up with a theory demands research, evidence and scientific publication.
The main argument of the adherents of intelligent design against the theory of evolution is that the complexity of the forms of life existing today are too complex to have resulted via a process of natural selection. Even the Cambrian explosion from roughly 540 million years ago is viewed as having resulted from the intervention of a higher being. The period, which lasted between 40 million and 50 million years, saw a dramatic rise in the number and diversity of species.
The belief in divine creation is held across the world, though perhaps not to the extent claimed by Creationists. In August 2006, the scientific journal "Science" published an article about surveys regarding beliefs in the US, Japan and 32 European countries over the last 20 years. The results showed that in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, France and Japan, less than 20 percent of the population believes in divine creation. Germany was in 10th place, with over 70 percent of its population believing in evolution and only 22 percent believing in divine creation. The US took second place behind Turkey. Only 40 percent of the US population believes in evolution, while 39 percent believes in Biblical creationism, and the numbers of the latter are growing.
The complexity of the issue, however, can be seen in the divergent results obtained from various surveys. For example, the percentage of people who claim to believe in divine creation ranges between 45 percent and 55 percent, depending on the way the question is phrased. Between 30 percent and 40 percent claim to believe that evolution does occur, though with divine involvement. In frequent surveys, only around 10 percent of Americans claim to believe that God played absolutely no role in the development of life and humankind.
A 2005 survey conducted by the German pollster Emnid found that half of all respondents believed that a higher power created Earth and life. There was a significant difference between the states of the former West Germany and those of the former East Germany: While 35 percent in the east believe in a divine role in creation, 54 percent do so in the west. A 2007 survey conducted at the University of Dortmund found that one in every eight people starting in a teacher-training program had doubts about the theory of evolution.
Harun Yahya, 52 (legal name: Adnan Oktar), is a Turkish author and one of the most famous adherents of Creationism in the Islamic world. Yahya likes to point to Darwinism as the root of all evil and the real driving force behind Islamist terrorism. Yahya became famous in the 1990s as a Holocaust denier, although in more recent years he has officially distanced himself from that position. At the same time, however, in one of his books he accuses "radical Zionists" of having fomented anti-Semitism in the 1930s "in collaboration with the Nazis" and to have exploited it both politically and economically.
More recently, Oktar has drawn attention for sending thousands of copies of his 800-page book "Atlas of Creation" to schools and journalists all over the world.
Oktar: The book, "The Holocaust Lie," is by one of my friends, Nuri Özbudak. It is not one of my books. He published his own essays under that title. Later, we protested against this through the Public Notary and declared the fact to the public. I did not take any other legal action but only protested through the Public Notary because he used my name. My book expressing my own ideas was published later.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Next year, a part of the world will celebrate the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth and the 150th anniversary of his first publication of "On the Origin of Species." Will you be celebrating, too?
Oktar: It will actually turn out to be a worldwide celebration of Darwinism’s collapse. People will be stunned at how they believed in Darwinism. They will be amazed at how they were taken in by such a hoax for years. They will also be astonished at themselves and at how hundreds, thousands of universities around the world and hundreds, thousands of professors backed such a hoax, and how they were deceived by Satan's plot.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: One of your books is called "The Atlas of Creation," a massive and obviously very expensive volume. It was distributed all over the world, and many free copies were sent to members of the Western media. How do you finance your struggle against Darwinism?
Oktar: The publishing house makes a great profit, since I do not take any royalties from my books. And my books are being sold in great numbers both domestically and abroad. Last year, 8 million copies were sold in Turkey and 2 million abroad. This makes a considerable total sum. Almost no other book has ever sold so much in Turkey. This year it is even higher; it is many times higher. Sales have doubled. It is perfectly normal for the publishing house to use part of that income to distribute books. This counts as publicity. However, the financial resources for this, as I have stated, are supplied by the publishing house.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In May, you were sentenced by a Turkish court for having created an illegal organization for personal gain.
Oktar: Yes, there had been an allegation of a criminal organization. Yes, I was accused of being a gang leader. I have been given a penalty of three years’ imprisonment. This needs to be ratified by the Supreme Court of Appeals. If the Supreme Court of Appeals ratifies this verdict, I will be given three years’ imprisonment. However, there is no legal evidence in the sense that I understand to be acceptable. Since my deposition was taken without my lawyer present, it should be invalid. My deposition -- which I was made to give under coercion, by force -- has been accepted (as) valid both in the Supreme Court of Appeals and also in the court. Thus, I have been given this sentence.
Interview conducted by Daniel Steinvorth
© SPIEGEL ONLINE 2008
All Rights Reserved
Reproduction only allowed with the permission of SPIEGELnet GmbH
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