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New Government in Israel

'The World Will Get to Know the Real Avigdor Lieberman'

Avigdor Lieberman, head of the far-right Yisrael Beitenu, could become Israel's next foreign minister. SPIEGEL spoke with his fellow party member Danny Ayalon about charges that Lieberman is racist and anti-Arab.

SPIEGEL: How smart is it to let somebody become Israel's chief diplomat who has, in the past, had a reputation for not being terribly diplomatic -- particularly when it comes to Arabs?

Ayalon: Lieberman will be an excellent foreign minister. I admit that, up to now, there has been a problem with his international perception. But these are superficial stereotypes which were created by the Israeli press.

SPIEGEL: Surely Lieberman is not completely innocent when it comes to the image many have of him. Among other things, he threatened to bomb the Aswan Dam in Egypt and he demanded that Israel uses the same force in the Gaza Strip as the Russians in Chechnya.

Ayalon: These sentences were taken out of context. The world will soon get to know the real Avigdor Lieberman. He is a democrat and a pragmatic.

SPIEGEL: One who certainly doesn't shy away from provocative claims and demands.

Ayalon: Without doubt, he is somebody who dares to speak out on controversial issues. But that does not make him the racist he is portrayed as in parts of the press.

SPIEGEL: During the campaign, Lieberman seemed to single out Arabs living in Israel for critique.

Ayalon: We do not single out anybody on the base of religion or ethnicity. When we demand loyalty, we are referring to all citizens of Israel. We would like to see the Israeli Arabs complete a civil service stint should they not want to go into the army, but we want the same from the ultra-orthodox Jews. The litmus test for loyalty is action not words. Everybody can say his opinion freely.

SPIEGEL: On the one hand, you are demanding loyalty. On the other, your party is suggesting to transfer Arab communities to the sovereignty of a future Palestinian state. How does that fit together?

Ayalon: The Israeli left demands to evacuate the Jewish settlements and to make the Palestinian state free of Jews. At the same time, they want the 20 percent Arabs to remain in Israel. We want that the big settlement blocks stay part of Israel and in exchange the Arab towns near the border will be transferred to Palestinian sovereignty. Such a population exchange is neither racist nor fascist. When it comes to finding a solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there should be no taboos.

Interview conducted by Christoph Schult