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08/24/2009

SPIEGEL: How much of the occupied land would you be willing to give back? By allowing the settlements to grow, aren't you more or less making a viable Palestinian state impossible?

Meridor: The final borders are open for discussion. But we will not return to the line of 1967 -- that's for sure. It was agreed in both President Bush's letter to Olmert and in the Geneva understandings that the settlement blocks would be part of the State of Israel in the final agreement.

SPIEGEL: Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian leader: Would you be satisfied with the fractured state that Netanyahu is offering -- which doesn't include an army, control of your air space and East Jerusalem as your capital?

Meridor: I'd accept it. You know, I would like the whole land to be my land -- because I think it's mine and they think it should all be theirs. But I changed my mind over 15 years ago: We need to divide it, and both sides have to accept this. For a long time already, we had a difficult, but very positive process.

SPIEGEL: Are you saying that there is no longer any peace process?

Meridor: We hope it will resume, and we have some hopeful signs. But, all in all, it has become more difficult over the years because of the introduction of religion into this conflict. Arab rulers hated us in the past, but they did it because of nationalistic ideas. Since the (1979) revolution in Teheran, we hear a different tune: The Iranians, Hezbollah and Hamas fight us in the name of religion. This is very bad because people can compromise, but gods never compromise.

SPIEGEL: Are you sure that the Iranians introduced religion into the conflict? Isn't Jerusalem about religion, too? Aren't the ultraorthodox settlers claiming the Holy Land for themselves because of their God-given rights?

Meridor: You can't compare these things. The previous pope (John Paul II) said that Jerusalem is sacred to all religions but was promised to one people. We have no religious claim on Jerusalem; we have a national one. Jerusalem is our capital. We shouldn't talk about the settlements 90 percent of the time and neglect the most important problems ...

SPIEGEL: ... like Iran and nuclear weapons.

Meridor: This is certainly a cause of serious concern.

SPIEGEL: John Bolton, the former US ambassador to the UN, recently claimed that Israel will attack Iran's nuclear sites by the end of the year. Although the well-informed Israeli newspaper Haaretz did not give an exact timetable for such an attack, it did report that Netanyahu has made the decision to bomb Iran. Is this true?

Meridor: I don't think the prime minister has made up his mind in the way it has been described. But I don't want to get into details ...

SPIEGEL: ...which is a pity. And that's because you -- as the minister of intelligence and atomic energy and a member of Netanyahu's inner circle -- should know.

Meridor: Let me say this much: I think Iran shouldn't be allowed to become a nuclear power. This is not only an issue for Israel but for the whole world. It would be a victory for the extremists over the moderates in the Arab world. This worries the moderate Arab countries more than anything else. It would change the equilibrium in the Middle East; it would mean the end of the (Nuclear) Non-Proliferation Treaty; it would be a serious threat for us. One shouldn't forget that Iranian President (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad has repeatedly spoken about the illegitimacy of Israel and its destruction. But we should concentrate now on harsher sanctions against Teheran, with America leading the way. And we are counting on the Europeans to follow with serious actions. This includes Germany, which is one of Iran's very important trading partners.

SPIEGEL: But what if the sanctions fail to divert Iran from its present course? Will Israel attack alone? Or only with the consent of the US?

Meridor: I don't want to go into this. But we all see the clock ticking -- and Netanyahu knows what he's doing.

SPIEGEL: At the moment, he is much more popular in Israel than he is abroad. Are you worried that Netanyahu might get a somewhat cool reception in Berlin?

Meridor: No. Germany is one of Israel's best friends. And, all in all, I am quite optimistic that things in the Middle East will develop in a positive way. There's something in the air.

SPIEGEL: Really? Could Marwan Barghouti, the intifada leader who is currently serving five life sentences for murder in an Israeli jail, be released and become a respected Palestinian leader and partner for peace? Many think that he has become a moderate, and the Fatah Party's congress held in early August voted him into its Central Committee with the third-best results of any candidate.

Meridor: I've heard similar ideas.

SPIEGEL: Many people think that both the Palestinians and the Israelis have made peace with the status quo and are not prepared for any more painful compromises. Are they right?

Meridor: For us, the status quo is a bad option. We need to change it -- and take risks. But we must take into account the lessons we've learned from the past.

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• Part 1: 'We All See the Clock Ticking'
• Part 2: 'People Can Compromise, But Gods Never Compromise'