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09/14/2009

SPIEGEL: Ms. Wieczorek-Zeul, for a long time the German government acted as if its soldiers in Afghanistan were nothing more than aid or development workers in uniform. Has this illusion been shattered?

Wieczorek-Zeul: Those responsible for development policy never cultivated this image. There is a common mission but responsibility for security and responsibility for rebuilding the country are separate.

SPIEGEL: You've always stressed that the hearts and minds of the Afghan people can only be won over if there are no civilian casualties as a result of military operations.

Wieczorek-Zeul: I stand by that. We pressed the US government and NATO for a change in strategy to avoid civilian casualties. Last Friday's air strike could make people forget we actually did that.

SPIEGEL: What consequences does the air strike have for Germany's reputation and work there?

Wieczorek-Zeul: I don't want to speculate about that from afar. But our reputation was demonstrably good. However, this kind of military action of course affects reconstruction efforts. As it was, we had already withdrawn some of our personnel around the time of the August elections (in Afghanistan). Now our work will become even more difficult.

SPIEGEL: The international community has poured billions into reconstruction efforts, yet the Taliban still grows in influence. What's going wrong?

Wieczorek-Zeul: We've achieved a great deal, for example with access to loans for people to rebuild their livelihoods, in providing drinking water supplies and in constructing schools. But all of that is called into question when military operations cause civilian casualties.

SPIEGEL: What needs to change?

Wieczorek-Zeul: We too are prepared to do more for civilian development. The weakest link is the sluggish development of the Afghan police. We have been pushing the European Union for a while to send more people to train them.

SPIEGEL: The military complains that your department isn't very cooperative, and your projects are not "visible" enough to the general population. Is that true?

Wieczorek-Zeul: We don't interfere with the army and they don't make decisions about reconstruction and development. In the case of United States troops, their commander is also the de facto head of the development workers. But we deliberately separate the two. And it's a myth that the two are not co-operating. The heads of the departments consult closely with each other -- at least once a month.

SPIEGEL: You're known as a staunch leftist, your nickname is "Red Heidi." So why are you not demanding an immediate withdrawal of troops?

Wieczorek-Zeul: It would be irresponsible to provoke the return of violent criminals -- especially in terms of the situtation for (Afghan) women. But now we must discuss how things will proceed militarily in Afghanistan.

SPIEGEL: Your fellow Social Democrat, former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, has named 2015 as the appropriate date for the withdrawal of German Bundeswehr troops. Do you agree?

Wieczorek-Zeul: I concur with (Foreign Minister) Frank-Walter Steinmeier's suggestion that we set a schedule and a deadline for when the Afghan soldiers and police can assume full responsibility for the security of the Afghan people. In 2010 the Afghanistan Compact (international aid treaty) should be extended for another five years. Then, if all goes well in terms of progress and commensurate agreements, the troops could withdraw in 2015. This does seem to be the fundamental consensus in the German Bundestag. Of course, civilian reconstruction will take longer.