German Chancellor Angela Merkel addressing a joint session of Congress in Washington this week.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You have written in your book "Winning the Right War" that one very important imperative is for the American policy to restore its moral authority. How much have you achieved nine months into Barack Obama's presidency?
Philip Gordon: I think since the president has come into office he has taken important steps to do so. Announcing the plans to close Guantanamo right from the very start of the administration, taking a lead on issues like climate change, giving a speech in Cairo to the Muslim world -- all this coupled with a general style and tone of diplomacy has shown a real respect for the views of others around the world and is a key premise to the goal of restoring our moral authority in the world.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your country certainly experienced quite a comeback in Germany, Obama's approval rates here are higher than 90 percent, he is more popular than any German politician.
Gordon: Not just the approval rate of the president has increased but also the respect and desire for American leadership. For many in Europe, the American leadership role was welcomed for decades and then it came into question. What was responsible for that? I think it was issues like not acting on climate change which was very important for people around the world. Other issues like torture and detainee treatment or the invasion of Iraq also had a strong impact. In all of these areas we have seen policy change and progress.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: So the Germans love America again. But what about the regime in Iran, the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Muslim world? Has Obama really made progress in dealing with them?
Gordon: Nobody thought we could just restore moral authority and everyone would change their view of the United States instantly. We face huge challenges in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran or North Korea and we don't have simple answers. But I think that is also part of Obama's approach. We recognize that we don't have simple answers and that these are very difficult problems.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In what area is US foreign policy most successful at the moment?
Gordon: Restoring the unity of the Atlantic Alliance is an important thing that in some ways has already been accomplished. On the key issues of the day, I think there is more trans-Atlantic unity than at almost anytime in the post-World War II period.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You are not disappointed with the European contribution? It often sounds as if Americans expected more leadership in foreign affairs from Europe.
Gordon: We are very satisfied with the way we are working with our European allies. Would we like to be making more and quicker progress in problems like Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan? Of course. Do we demand more and expect more of our allies? Always, because you always want more especially when facing a difficult situation. But we are very pleased with the degree of consensus and cooperation that we are getting from our European allies.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: We Germans just elected a new government. Is that a positive development for the trans-Atlantic relationship?
Gordon: I am sure that we will work very well with the new German government. It is not an enormous change, the chancellor is still the same. But it is a new coalition and we'll look forward to getting to know them and working with them.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Many politicians in Berlin are not happy with the fact that they are hardly informed about the future of the strategy in Afghanistan. They are feeling left out even though Germany provides significant resources.
Gordon: We are in the middle of a very difficult process in Afghanistan. I think our allies had some experience with a US administration that made quick decisions and went out to implement them before informing the allies what these decisions were. That is not what we are doing or plan to do. I think we are in close touch with our allies as we work this through, but it is true there is not a quick and simple decision emerging from this process because it is a very difficult question. I think and hope that our allies appreciate the fact that we want to get it right.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But Obama announced the results of a comprehensive strategy review for Afghanistan in March, now he seems to be reconsidering his own strategy yet again. Many Europeans are confused about this -- and impatient.
Gordon: We are impatient, too. No one has a greater stake in getting on with this and knowing what we are doing and succeeding as we do. But we hope and think that allies understand that there are a lot of variables. They should be talked through, they should be examined carefully.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Progress in Afghanistan, however, seems more elusive than ever. The presidential election turned into a farce and Karzai is now officially re-elected -- but has even less legitimacy.
Gordon: No one was surprised that the election was imperfect. It was more imperfect than we hoped and wanted it to be. But the bottom line is we are not there to do favors for people or reward their good behavior in elections. We are there because we think that abandoning Afghanistan as the international community did before can lead it to regress into chaos, drug trafficking, and a haven for terrorists. We are also doing it for the Afghan people, many of whom would suffer horrible consequences if we were to leave and allow the Taliban -- or even worse, al-Qaida -- to come to power and treat people the way they did before.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But can anyone define achievable goals for the mission in Afghanistan after eight years with so little progress?
Gordon: That is exactly the question that the president and our policy review have been asking, because we should constantly ask whether we have the right approach. That is what the McChrystal report was about -- suggesting changes in our approach. We need to constantly ask that question. But I think there is much less debate about whether we need to continue to do what we can to avoid the Taliban and al-Qaida coming back. The overall strategy is to defeat them in Afghanistan. There is little debate about whether we need to do that.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: There is a growing conviction in Europe, even among elder statesmen like Helmut Schmidt, that the West should just leave Afghanistan. Do you understand that sentiment?
Gordon: It is not surprising that there are serious questions being raised about our commitment in Afghanistan. It is very costly and it has uncertain outcomes. But I would challenge the notion that Europeans are somehow rushing for the exits. There are possibly more European troops there than there have ever been.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: And they still stand behind the mission?
Gordon: No one claimed that a couple of months or years of intervention turns Afghanistan into a completely stable place with stable structures and nothing to worry about. That is not a realistic goal. But if one compares what we have achieved now with what the situation would be like if we had simply left the place -- that comparison is pretty easy and there is broad support even in Europe for that.
Interview conducted by Mathias Müller von Blumencron and Gabor Steingart
© SPIEGEL ONLINE 2009
All Rights Reserved
Reproduction only allowed with the permission of SPIEGELnet GmbH
