SPIEGEL Interview with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir: 'I Feel Completely Safe'

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SPIEGEL: Your country has not had official diplomatic relations with the United States for 12 years. Nevertheless, the Americans are also interested in Sudan's oil wealth and stability in the region. The two countries' intelligence services have cooperated intensively in their counterterrorism efforts for some time. The Sudanese intelligence service uses American equipment, and your former intelligence chief was in the United States several times. Could it be that you secretly get along quite well with the United States?

Bashir: The actual decision-makers in the United States, but also the FBI and CIA, know perfectly well that the things that are said about Sudan are not true. But powerful interest groups exert influence on the US government. This is the only way to explain the contradictions in the American position.

SPIEGEL: You always suspect Israeli influence behind everything. But you are the one who is helping the Palestinian extremists in their fight against Israel.

Bashir: Yes, we support Hamas's and Hezbollah's legitimate struggle against the Israeli occupation and the resistance against the American invaders in Iraq and Afghanistan, where a president was forced upon the people.

SPIEGEL: But are any secret negotiations between you and the Americans taking place, similar to the talks that once took place with Libyan revolutionary leader Moammar Gadhafi, who, after abandoning his nuclear program and his support for terrorists, was transformed from a declared rogue into an ally of the Americans?

Bashir: Our dialogue with the United States goes through US Special Envoy Scott Gration. We consider this former general to be a reasonable, realistic man. American companies handled our oil business in the past. But they decided to get out of Sudan. They apparently thought that no one would take their place.

SPIEGEL: An economic delegation of the German Arab Association recently toured your country. Is it even possible to conduct business profitably in Sudan, on which the European Union and, more importantly, the United States, have imposed heavy sanctions?

Bashir: We are willing to cooperate with the German economy in all areas, and to protect German projects if requested. The sanctions are not causing any problems for us. On the same day that Siemens announced that it planned to withdraw from Sudan, we signed an agreement with a large Chinese company. In the petroleum sector, we have now signed contracts with Chinese, Indian and Malaysian companies, and these contracts are significantly better than the ones we had with the Americans. The Americans kept 70 percent of the oil proceeds for themselves, and the Sudanese government got only 30 percent. Today the government receives 70 percent. The Chinese also train technicians and experts. Most of the engineers working in the oil fields today are Sudanese.

SPIEGEL: Why did you offer your hospitality to the later top terrorist Osama bin Laden until 1996, for a period of four years?

Bashir: Osama bin Laden was initially active in Afghanistan where, as a mujahedeen, he enjoyed the full support of the Americans. In fact, the CIA kept track of his military operations. After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, bin Laden came to Sudan and built the airport at Port Sudan. The project was financed by the Saudi Arabian government, and the work was done by the Saudi Arabian Bin Laden Group. In other words, he wasn't here as a terrorist but as in investor and businessman. But then he started having problems with the government in Riyadh ...

SPIEGEL: ... because Islamist extremists joined him in Sudan and stirred up the faithful.

Bashir: We, at any rate, were no longer willing to support him in this conflict. But he didn't go back to Saudi Arabia, because he would have been put on trial there, and traveled to Afghanistan instead.

SPIEGEL: You have announced your intention to allow the country's oil-rich south to become independent, if that's what the Sudanese want. Does this mean that you are yielding to international pressure?

Bashir: This didn't happen in response to pressure from abroad, but because we realized that such an important historical event can only be decided by legitimate representatives of the people. Before we hold the referendum on whether the south will remain part of the federation, we want to establish the necessary conditions with the elections in April.

SPIEGEL: If the referendum seals the secession, will an independent south continue to be satisfied with only 50 percent of oil revenues, even through three-quarters of the reserves are in the south?

Bashir: Such details will be resolved after the referendum.

SPIEGEL: In any event, the north will retain sovereignty over the oil business for the foreseeable future, because the pipelines to the Red Sea run through northern Sudan, which is also where the refineries are located.

Bashir: After 50 years of war, we have agreed to a peaceful solution. All those who believe that a non-violent settlement of the conflict is not possible are wrong, no matter what the southern Sudanese decide. The Czechs and the Slovaks were the last people to set an example of peaceful and amiable coexistence between two nations that were once united.

SPIEGEL: The United Nations has its largest contingent of peacekeepers, more than 30,000 soldiers, stationed in southern Sudan. Will that become unnecessary if the negotiations with the Darfur rebels are also successful?

Bashir: If the situation in Sudan stabilizes and the peace holds up, UN troops will no longer be needed. But if foreign soldiers remain in the country after fulfilling their mission, it will only create problems.

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• Part 1: 'I Feel Completely Safe'
• Part 2: 'The Sanctions Are Not Causing any Problems for Us'